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Old 09-14-2008, 01:33 PM   #51
forrest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicZinc View Post
What about the mention of molasses in the description from the Index?
Well frankly, i stand corrected.
i would (and will) certainly defer to Ed on such matters-- seeing as he has probably been there, and seen the whole procedure, and i am only reading from their website and wikipedia (and to be honest quite a few other places, but those 2 were authoritative enough for me to make my previous statements, and i don't want to stack this page with hyper links.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by VicZinc View Post
Just curious. Also the "Estate" is not listed in that index; the "Domaine" is - and some here make it clear that they are not the same beast.
i have not done a side by side of the 2, but on the website it explains what the difference would be from: Chill Filtration (here is a link to Bruichladdich where it explains chill filtration and its effect on a spirit..), this is the simplest explanation of the difference between the 2, and it only makes me want to try Reserve du Domain even more

To be completely forthright, i actually prefer the 5 Star (by a narrow margin!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VicZinc View Post
Again, just wondering if there is some tidying-up to do in the index?
It is possible. i am sure Ed will tell us if that is the case. There was an awful lot of typing that went into this site and making a couple of mistake would be fairly easy to do (unless of course you type as poorly as i do, and then it would be more mistakes than accuracies ), either way, i will defer to Ed, and stand corrected by VicZinc!

Last edited by forrest; 09-14-2008 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:42 PM   #52
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OK, I had the chance to visit Barbancourt yesterday. . .

I am currently on-site in Haiti - so to speak.

Here's what I have deduced, based on my limited rum knowledge. . .

- The Barbancourt plant was essentially idle when I visited. This is September. Nothing appears to be going on there at this time of year.

- Supposedly they do not ferment and distill unless they have fresh sugar cane juice. This means the plant supposedly sits idle from July to November. It was certainly idle when I visited. Speaking to tour operators it seems like nobody visits the plant at this time of year because there is nothing to see. I made private arrangements to drop by.

- Despite all the above, the distiller admitted to me that they sometimes mix the sugar cane juice with concentrated sugar cane syrup. The distiller told me they do this during some months of the year, but not during every producing month.

- They absolutely deny using molasses. They admit using a small percentage of concentrated sugar cane syrup, but they do not admit molasses. I just mention this because there have been suggestions floating around that they use molasses when other materials are unavailable. Ok, perhaps they really do, but if so they keep it well hidden.

- They like to call themselves an agricole rum. I assume they don't entirely fit the definition. However, when I suggested they were an agricole 'like Martinique' they became all smiley. When I suggested they were 'like a Dominican rum' they looked most offended.

I will put something more detailed up on my own website in time. The Internet here in Haiti is horrible.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:12 PM   #53
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thanks for posting some info directly from on site. It's hard to get information about this product.
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Old 11-01-2008, 05:06 AM   #54
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I am posting to say that I finally taste what Robert Burr was talking about in the differences between the RD and the ER, I will call them . My hat is off to you Robert! The Estate Reserve is a 1/8 shade darker when examined in identical glasses and exactly the same measures of both rums. The nose on the ER is more alcohol, though, very close in aroma. The Reserve du Domaine tastes slightly smoother on the initial taste, that is, a little less burn on the tongue. The overall taste is more laid back and the finish is just a little sweeter. I definitely know that these rums are related in every way. But, they are just not the same. The ED is more refined than the ER. I know that is a weak statement and a weak way of trying to describe the difference, but that's the only way that I can phrase it. Or, better, it's like somebody just tried harded on the Reserve du Domaine.

Last edited by rumdog007; 11-01-2008 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:05 PM   #55
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Damn, now I've got to go back and try them again side by side in the light, to see if I can taste and see the difference. Maybe it was just the air mail to California that made one change!!!! Now I will try them in a flare glass.
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Old 11-01-2008, 04:04 PM   #56
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let me know the results of your comparison. It's not easy to get both versions in most markets.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:29 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertBurr View Post
let me know the results of your comparison. It's not easy to get both versions in most markets.
On the nose the difference begin to appear, Reserve Du Domaine (RD) seems not to be an an amplification of, but rather a more mature version of Estate Reserve (ER).
The delicate straw, cane syrup, tea and dry oak tones are present in both-- they seem to be cut from the exact same mold-- but the RD show these with an subtle back note of honey, and oak tones that articulate to fresh caramel. Also the ER is more 'rummy/boozy' on the nose.

To taste the ER resolves delicately the cane syrup implied on the nose and shows soft tea tannins, straw, with rich honey and fresh caramel. The finish is warming, fresh and deep-- very enjoyable.

To touch on the nose again the RD has a more resolved structure-- appearing to be be more advanced, and simultaneously copious, and finespun. The palate reveals 'less obviously' the tea tannins, with rich honey but also show toffee, macadamia nut and caramelized cane sugar; but is awash in an oily, silky smooth divulgence that is more lingering, and subtle. The finish is soft, mellow and recherche-- displaying again tea, and stewed dark tree fruit with fragile spices-- unbelievable good.

Definitely a difference. To drink the ER Barbancourt is still an amazing pleasure, but the RD has darker tones, is slightly richer, and suaver. Both are very satisfying, but to choose would be easy for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Hamilton View Post
It is my belief that the differences lie primarily in the aging process.
Well i don't think it is the size of the vessel (i think it is the motion of the ocean--sorry couldn't resist) that it is aged in, i think it is chill filtration:


From the Barbancourt site:

Quote:
Barbancourt improves on the conventional filtration technique by finishing with a cold filtration technique. The last technique is used for rum exported to non tropical countries to avoid the climate change causing some deposits.
And chill filtration removes polyphenols like esters and aldehydes which lead to alot of the aromatic characteristics of a spirit. Also removing some of the oils naturally present in rum (that display weight, texture and mouth-feel). Leaving what is perceived through taste and smell as extra profundity and largeness of flavor along with an increased bouquet.

Why does Barbancourt do it?? (from the Bruichladich site, where i paraphrased most of the above info on chill filtering))
Quote:
There is the possibility of a temporary haze developing should the bottle in question be subjected to very low temperatures. This haze will disappear when the bottle regains temperature.
Well there is my take, sorry for rambling.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
...
There is one disturbing note in the description. "Barbancourt improves on the conventional filtration technique by finishing with a cold filtration technique. The last technique is used for rums exported to non-tropical countries to avoid the climate change causing some deposits." Don't those "deposits" include the fats which Ed has indicated contain a good deal of flavor?
Please note the mention of additonal filtration for Barbancourt rhums headed for non-tropical countries in a related thread from last March.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:27 PM   #59
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Quote:
i think it is chill filtration:

Good work forrest! I'm willing to accept your conclusion. To my palate Barbancourt's offerings are rather more delicate and ephemeral than most aged rums out there. I could see where that extra filtration could alter the flavor profile in a noticeable way.

If in fact the filtration is the difference between the ED and RD, then it acts as a wonderful model of as to how filtering can alter the aroma and flavor.

Thinking about it, It's a bit of a pity that Barbancourt feels the need to chill filter their top of the line product for export.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:49 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Please note the mention of additonal filtration for Barbancourt rhums headed for non-tropical countries in a related thread from last March.
Indeed Michael...You were spot on!
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