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Old 01-08-2008, 11:06 AM   #1
Jean-Loup
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Default Verschnitt rum specialist required

Hello people.
I am not much of a rum fan, but would like to have the opinion of some people very knowleadgable in the history of Verschnitt rum.
First, what exactly is Verschnitt rum, when was it created?
Secondly, could you guys look at the photos of the bottle of rum posted on this link: http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?...mm=3&xb=1&vd=1
(look at the tenth photo, going down)

Does this stile of rum bottle look like something from 1945? Can similar rum still be bought today, in this exact type of bottle, with that exact label? How much would that rum be worthm and would it be hard to find?

As you can see, those bottles of rum were found in a box supposedly buried by a German officer in 1945. There has been a big discution though on wether it is a real find or a hoax. Maybe the carefull analisys of the rum bottles can bring the answer?

Please, only answere this post if you have true knowleadge about Verschnitt rum, no guessing.

Thanks all

JL
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Old 01-09-2008, 09:22 AM   #2
Jean-Loup
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Come on guys, surely somebody knows something that can help solve the mystery of this dug up box that contained rum bottles.

JL
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:05 AM   #3
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Can we see close-up photos of the tops of the bottles?
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Old 01-09-2008, 10:36 AM   #4
Edward Hamilton
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There are industry people who can make some very educated guesses about the origin of this rum but to expect a definitive answer in less than 24 hours may be a little unrealistic.

For those who don't know about this rum product, Verschnitt evolved in Germany after that country raised the tax on imported alcohol. Vershcnitt is a blend of at least 5% high ester rum, typically Jamaican, and neutral spirits distilled in Germany, which were taxed at a much lower rate.

My first thought when I look at those pictures is that the men's hands look too clean, as do their boots and clothes. By the size of the hole, they seem to have known exactly where to dig the shallow hole, which may be explained by using a metal detector, this is shown on a site that promotes metal detectors.

For a metal box which has been buried that long, I'm surprised the chest doesn't have more corrosion on the outside. The labels and wrapping paper have held up extremely well, the paper appears to have aged, yellowed, very uniformly, and the corrugated cardboard also appears to be in very good shape. The (rubber?) seal on the box doesn't appear to have been compromised when the box was opened in the field.
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:05 AM   #5
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Thanks for the participation guys.
Unfortunately, I do not know of any other pictures of the bottles that are availlable, at least for the moment.
Mr Hamilton, indeed, the condition of the items inside the box is amazing, which is why many people believe the hole thing is a hoax. However, such incredible finds have occured before, and all the uniforms and documents shown appear authentic. I am hoping that somebody here will be able to give me an idea about the authenticity of the bottles.

"For those who don't know about this rum product, Verschnitt evolved in Germany after that country raised the tax on imported alcohol."

Can you please tell us in what year (approximately) Germany raised the taxes, causing the creation of Verschnitt.
Is any Verschnitt similar to this availlable today on the market?

JL
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Old 01-09-2008, 11:35 AM   #6
Matusalem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Loup View Post
Please, only answere this post if you have true knowleadge about Verschnitt rum, no guessing.

Thanks all

JL
This sort of ruled out a lot of us.

Edward has covered some of my own thoughts based on the photos, which appear to be purposely taken in a step by step procedure, possibly designed to drum up authenticity.

The other thing I'd say is this... as a cigar enthusiast, I've seen 50 year old cigars - often having been stored & preserved in what is believed ripe conditions they show signs of wrapper cracks and other outward signs of being relics. Does it snow where this discovery was made? Who ever took these photos is not completely naive though, as there are obvious signs of mold on a few of the cigars, I'd expect that but likely quite a bit more. After 50 years of poor storage and signs of mold, why is the box clean with not a trace of spores growing?

I'd say more but I'd also caution Ed and others, these finds get better and better and harder and harder to sort through as the individuals who put them together read what is said on boards like these and comments like ours to educate themselves on what points they didn't think to cover to make it more realistic. Next time the hole will look like a back-hoe dug it, the boots will be covered in mud and the finders will look like they've just been rescued from a mine collapse.

I realize you wanted more than an opinion Jean-Loop, but that's all I'm able to offer. You are correct - the find could be legit through all the skepticism. I'm a man who tries to work with logic. For me there are far too many coincidental inconsistencies with what one would expect to see. My guess is it was a staged event.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:14 PM   #7
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Sorry for the "no guessing" comment, but on some forums, people post without having any clue of what they are talking about; I just wanted to avoid this type of behaviour.

I saw other photos of some of the items found being posted on a forum, and the items were actualy more damaged then the photos in the link you guys have seen. Leather items had mold growing on them for example. The box was found in Kaliningrad as far as I know (it snows there).

The thing with this, is that there is no point of making a hoax out of it. All the militaria is authentic. If it was a hoax, I would expect the hoax to be used as a way to try to proove the authenticity of some fake militaria. Also, I dont think any of the items have been sold, so these photos did not serve as advertising.

The clean hands and boots are not surprising at all, as they are digging in sand, and sand quickly falls off.

The people digging were experienced diggers who systematicaly take photos of everything they dig up, this is not surprising either. I dig sometimes, and follow the same procedure.

If the box was perfectly airtight, then that could explain why the paper didnt yellow, and the cigars stayed so nice. Oxygene is required for these reactions to occure. Here, I believe the stock of oxygene could rapidly have been used up (mold growth), and then everything stayed in pristine condition. Mold grows on organic items, not on a metal box, that is why the inside of the box is still brand new.

I dont think most of us are qualified enaugh to be able to discuse the condition of the items properly, so to get back to the bottles, do you guys see any "red flags"? Did Verschnitt even exist in 1945?

JL

Last edited by Jean-Loup; 01-09-2008 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:17 PM   #8
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Just to clarify, I meant the CIGAR BOX and it's dress paper would be smeared with mold, not the metal enclosure case.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:32 PM   #9
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Digging isn't really that dirty as one might expect. I've dug many holes when I was in the military, for mines and foxholes etc.
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:11 PM   #10
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Patience will be rewarded. I expect we'll read some comments from some experienced blenders from Holland and retailers from Germany. But like good rum, it takes time to distill the good stuff.
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