MoR Mobile β


New Users Please read the thread in the Introductions Section.
Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum

16 years ago in 2004, Sagatiba Brasil SA was established in Brazil.

Search by Label Name
Other Searches
Ministry of Rum Blog
Rum Events
Member Map
Rum Producers
Retail Index
Bars & Restaurants
Distributor Index
Rum Importer Index
Articles
Interviews
Frequently Asked Rum Questions
Rum 101
Test your Rum IQ
Rum Glossary
Rum Recipes
Ministry of Rum Giftshop
Trade Registry

Go Back   Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions
Forgot Password?
Register FAQ Members List Unregistered Posts Mark Forums Read

Rum questions/discussions

General questions or discussions about particular brands should be posted here.


Reply
 
    Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-04-2008, 11:24 AM   #11
angelsword
Senior Member
 
angelsword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Driftwood, Texas
Posts: 716
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Jimbo View Post
Yet another case for rum reference standards. Sorry, you know I just couldn't resist, lol...
While I see that as a case against such standards. One of the great things about rums are their variety.

(Continues working on new breeds of dogs.)
__________________
Daniel Watson
Mad Scientist
Temptryst Rum
angelsword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:59 AM   #12
Edward Hamilton
Founder
 
Edward Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sailboat in the Caribbean and hotels.
Posts: 4,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tym2relax View Post
In the 2007 International Cane Spirits Festival Competition the winner of the 15+ category was Ron Zacapa Centenario 23 Year Old and Santa Teresa 1796. If they were tasted alongside the 9-15 category winner, Diplomatico Reserva Exclusiva, could there be a preference for the Diplomatico?

I understand the need for the categories. As a customer, not a judge, I wonder if there are stand out rums in a competition that could have been more favorable to more aged rums. That's all.
It should be noted that Santa Teresa 1796 is not claimed to be a rum over 15 years. Placing rums in categories takes more than a little knowledge of the spirits and the marketing claims behind them. I am always amazed how many spirits want to be entered in a premium or super-premium category and then complain that their spirit was competing against a spirit that costs twice or more than their own.

In the interest of fairness, in the past, I have asked judges to taste a few spirits in a couple of different categories, without telling them which spirits are being tasted twice.
__________________
.
Edward Hamilton
Ambassador of Rum
Ministry of Rum

When I dream up a better job, I'm going to take it. In the meantime, the research continues.
Edward Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 01:14 PM   #13
the_good_life
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Friedberg, Germany
Posts: 20
Default

I've always felt one should not overestimate the significance especially of very large tasting competitions. They may be fun, the may give a certain orientation, but from my experience (which is with wine, not rum tastings)

1. awared prizes are highly publicized and used as marketing instruments, while the exact parameters of the contest too frequently remain vague. Many wine tastings give out far too many awards, some are known to award 30% of all entries - in that case I would speak of a marketing event rather than a serious competition. So it is very important to know details and the standing of the event in question.
2. large panels of tasters tend to average out results, and large tastings lead to questionable results, even among experienced tasters. The unusual and excentric has little chance. It is also a known fact that Parker-type blockbusters do well at tastings, while wines that go far better with a meal do badly. Perhaps a rum that impresses at a tasting will not be suitable in certain actual drinking contexts, or you will tire of it after a few sips.
3. the best way to go is trust your own palate. Second best is disinterested advice from small communities (like this one) or from a professional taster whose preferences you can gauge or ideally which match your own. Medals and points can only provide a very rough orientation.
the_good_life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 02:47 PM   #14
Edward Hamilton
Founder
 
Edward Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sailboat in the Caribbean and hotels.
Posts: 4,796
Default

I completely agree with you that the parameters of most competitions are vague and the credentials of most of the judges are either unknown or irrelevant.

When I conducted the International Sugar Cane Spirits Tasting Competition in Ybor City in 2006 the judges were selected by me, not for their media influence or their experience in the wine, vodka, or tequila industry, but for their experience in the rum industry.

Following that competition, I heard only one complaint, from one producer who thought he should have won a gold medal instead of a silver medal. His comment was that his competition always won the gold medal and this time he should have won the gold medal.

Unfortunately, Dori Bryant has claimed that competition as her own after falsely claiming on a Federal Trademark Application that she conducted that competition and while that issue is still in the courts she continues to claim my work as her own. Today that competition is judged more by the media than people who work in and around the rum industry.

While the eccentric or unusual have more of a challenge impressing judges who may be unfamiliar with the spirits, among a panel of experienced judges, spirits that push the limits can be and often are rewarded.

Since rums are generally consumed before or after a meal compared to wines that are consumed with a meal, your comment that Parker-type blockbusters do well at tastings confirms that taken out of context, table wines made to be drunk with a meal aren't being served for the purpose for which they were made. Along those lines, it would be impossible for a wine tasting competition to serve wine with the food which best show their attributes.

Many rums are only consumed mixed in cocktails which becomes problematic at a tasting competition, unless you hold a cocktail competition.

Medals and points do only provide some guidance. Like wines, some rums change slightly from year to year, some for the better, some otherwise. Like it or not competitions among qualified consumers and industry people are part of the landscape of the industry.

In regards to the number of awards given, that is solely a function of the spirits being tasted. In the past, most of the spirits were of better than decent quality and were rewarded with at least a bronze medal. I do not see any value for the producer or consumer in publicizing that rum x was considered so bad that it didn't even win a bronze medal.

I do everything I can to make the competition as fair as possible to all of the judges and participants. It is my intention to make the Ministry of Rum Tasting Competition the most transparent in terms of the procedure, the judges and the results. After the results have been input into a spreadsheet I do a lot of calculations such as removing the high and low scores for each spirit tasted, which in the past has not changed the results.

If you have suggestions on how I can make this competition more valuable to you I will welcome your comments.
__________________
.
Edward Hamilton
Ambassador of Rum
Ministry of Rum

When I dream up a better job, I'm going to take it. In the meantime, the research continues.
Edward Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 01:46 AM   #15
RobertBurr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,197
Send a message via Skype™ to RobertBurr
Default

Competitions are as old as distilled spirits themselves. Like any system for voting, they're not perfect, but we love to compete and it encourages excellence.

What's new is the ability to share insightful perceptions with other experienced tasters who qualify themselves among their peers by means of their posted comments. This forum allows for a great range of opinions, often some consensus and once in a while an opportunity to shake up popular notions.

I can see the day coming when esteemed members of this forum will collectively rank rums in virtual competitions of various sorts and significant weight may be given to the qualified results -- because we are the consumers of quality rums, not talking heads, marketing geeks and others with a pony in the race.

If I were organizing a truly international competition, I'd choose judges from among the many interesting personalities I've met here online, from different states, different countries, with different perspectives. I suggest our collective wisdom is not trivial.
RobertBurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:18 AM   #16
Edward Hamilton
Founder
 
Edward Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sailboat in the Caribbean and hotels.
Posts: 4,796
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertBurr View Post

I can see the day coming when esteemed members of this forum will collectively rank rums in virtual competitions of various sorts and significant weight may be given to the qualified results -- because we are the consumers of quality rums, not talking heads, marketing geeks and others with a pony in the race.

If I were organizing a truly international competition, I'd choose judges from among the many interesting personalities I've met here online, from different states, different countries, with different perspectives. I suggest our collective wisdom is not trivial.
As members add to their favorites list by following the link to My Favorites above they will have an opportunity to rate various rums according to their taste. I'm working on tabulating this data in a meaningful way before publishing it for everyone to see. There are a number of other features coming soon.
__________________
.
Edward Hamilton
Ambassador of Rum
Ministry of Rum

When I dream up a better job, I'm going to take it. In the meantime, the research continues.
Edward Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 10:11 PM   #17
Hank Koestner
Senior Member
 
Hank Koestner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 1,318
Default

Between Ed and Robert,most all comments I would have made have been covered.
I believe that most of us on this forum, who are for the most part daily consumers and people who have tasted many rums time and again, might have a better understanding of the variations in rum. We might tend to be less biased, and at least try to rate each rum on it's own accord. I say this in comparison to professional tasters, who taste many different spirits.
A person like Robert Parker can make or break a wine with his rating, even if 20 other experienced tasters have different opinions. That is why I think larger panels with an overall rating give a more honest, fair expression of the spirit.
__________________
Rum is the answer. What was the question?
Hank Koestner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 11:41 PM   #18
The Rum Ambassador
Senior Member
 
The Rum Ambassador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London
Posts: 195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertBurr View Post
If I were organizing a truly international competition, I'd choose judges from among the many interesting personalities I've met here online, from different states, different countries, with different perspectives. I suggest our collective wisdom is not trivial.
Sound like a great idea Rob.
I think I'm going to try and get the best from the states, that would be Ed and yourself; The best from the UK, author of the book "Rum" Dave Broom; Mark Ridwell founder of Taste & Flavour , A couple of award winning mixologists in Mickael Perron (France) & Ben Reed (UK); La Floridita's international Ambassador & Rum collector, Richard Woods; A Sommelier/Rum & Chocolate Expert from Sweden, Duane Dove;A rum Journalist from the Netherlands, Rene Van Hoten; and Bruce Perry who is the sales director of one of the UK's leading spirit importers and was on the quality control tasting panel for St. Lucia distilleries for 6 years.
What do you think ?
Wait a minute. Those were some of the Judges at the UK RumFest Competition. No wonder the results were so tough.
__________________
When I read about the evils of drinking rum I stopped reading....Smile & Enjoy yourself,life's too short.

UK RUMFEST...The Rum Experience
London, England
24th-25th October 2009
www.rumfest.co.uk
The Rum Ambassador is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2008 Ministry Of Rum Tasting Competition RobertBurr Rum Events 2 12-30-2007 11:16 AM
Rum Experience International Tasting Competition Results Paulipbartender Rum Events 6 12-07-2007 09:52 PM
Tales of the Cocktail and Rum Tasting Competition Edward Hamilton Rum News 1 08-06-2007 02:25 AM
Newbie has a question igit83 Rum questions/discussions 5 07-16-2007 09:30 PM
Ministry of Rum Tasting Competition Edward Hamilton Rum Events 0 04-07-2007 08:38 PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 02:20 AM.


Rum Chat
Recent Posts
Havana Club 3 Year Old
posted by Berbician
help sought: Jane Barbancourt "Special Rum"
posted by aztropic
Appleton Estate 8 Year Old
posted by Berbician
Early Autumn Special Offers at Waitrose
posted by Berbician
Hello from UK
posted by Berbician
Hi all!
posted by Berbician
Tom Pedroni, Rum in the Time of Corona
posted by Berbician
Last month this site was viewed more than 750,000 times by the best people in the world - those who appreciate rum.
Ministry of Rum on
facebook link
Follow @Ed_Hamilton on

vB ver 3.8.6 Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content on this forum copyright 1995 - 2014 Ministry of Rum.