MoR Mobile β


New Users Please read the thread in the Introductions Section.
Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum

177 years ago in 1842, La Favorite was established on Martinique.

Search by Label Name
Other Searches
Ministry of Rum Blog
Rum Events
Member Map
Rum Producers
Retail Index
Bars & Restaurants
Distributor Index
Rum Importer Index
Articles
Interviews
Frequently Asked Rum Questions
Rum 101
Test your Rum IQ
Rum Glossary
Rum Recipes
Ministry of Rum Giftshop
Trade Registry

Go Back   Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions
Forgot Password?
Register FAQ Members List Unregistered Posts Mark Forums Read

Rum questions/discussions

General questions or discussions about particular brands should be posted here.


Reply
 
    Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2007, 02:42 PM   #1
Milicent
Senior Member
 
Milicent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 199
Default Mixing with "Better" Rums

Quick comments and queries for the rum aficionados: After reading many (if not all) of the posts here, numerous articles, and having numerous personal conversations, the overwhelming consensus re mixing with better rums seems to be that it is a waste of good rum.

While it is undeniable that some of the nuances and subtleties are lost in the mix, I don't understand the bias against mixing with better rums. Personally, I enjoy several rums neat or on the rocks. I also enjoy most rums in a 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 ratio Cuba Libre. The better rums always seem to make better drinks. I can still taste the rums enough to appreciate subtleties and discern better rums from others. That is my personal experience.

At times, it seems there is a sort of pretentiousness that exists in this regard. Here is my question: With all things considered, is it really a waste to use better rums in mixed drinks?

I know it all boils down to personal preference, but I would like to hear comments and opinions re the reasons why someone wouldn't want to use their favorite rums in mixed drinks when it seems undeniable that they would make better drinks.

I guess that's part of my confusion as well. If a person likes their rum neat or on the rocks at all times, I completely understand why they wouldn't want to see them mixed. At the same time, I don't understand the bias against doing so. It just seems to be pretentious snobbery. That's why I'm seeking input and other perspectives. I am fully aware my perceptions are limited and many of you have more experience, knowledge, and wisdom on this subject. Can you help me out?
Milicent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2007, 07:05 PM   #2
Edward Hamilton
Founder
 
Edward Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sailboat in the Caribbean and hotels.
Posts: 4,795
Default

Before I get to the discussion of mixing better rums, I'd like to congratulate you on making the 1000th post on this forum and thank you for your contribution.

I fall into the category of those who don't regularly mix better rums, but the question eally should be, " With what are you mixing your good rum?"
Call me a snob, but I never mix any rum with cola products, nor do I drink cola products by themselves. I really don't like high fructose corn syrup, no matter how it's served.

And for years I refused to add more than a little fresh Caribbean rain water to my rum. Then I began mixing better rums with better ingredients. Sometimes a rum manhattan hits the spot, and I use La Favorite Rhum Agricole Vieux or one of the better molasses based rums like Mount Gay Extra Old. Is it a waste of rum? No, not if you use good vermouth and fresh bitters. Not some bitters from a half empty bottle that has been sitting around for 2 years.

If you're mixing Diet Cola with your rum, I'd say you'd probably save some money by drinking cheaper rum, but there are no rules and no one should cut you off from the bar if you enjoy your rum that way. I would suggest that there are a lot of rum recipes that mix good ingredients with good rum and it does taste better with better rum.

I'll add a few recipes, but right now it's time for a cocktail. First things first.
__________________
.
Edward Hamilton
Ambassador of Rum
Ministry of Rum

When I dream up a better job, I'm going to take it. In the meantime, the research continues.
Edward Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2007, 07:40 PM   #3
Scottes
Senior Member
 
Scottes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 435
Default

I definitely believe in using the better stuff in drinks, for all ingredients. If a decent bottle of "mixing" rum costs $15 and a very good bottle costs $25, and you're using 1.5oz per drink then each "very good" drink costs about $0.59 more than the "decent" drink.

59 pennies.
Scottes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2007, 11:27 PM   #4
angelsword
Senior Member
 
angelsword's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Driftwood, Texas
Posts: 716
Default

I personally believe that quality of each ingredient adds to the overall result. A group of superb musicians can present a fantastic concert. Mediocre musicians usually just create cacophony.
__________________
Daniel Watson
Mad Scientist
Temptryst Rum
angelsword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 11:36 AM   #5
Matusalem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East of the Sun; West of the Moon
Posts: 573
Default

As others have indicated I believe in using quality ingredients that I like. It might also be a "just me" thing, but I'll try things and if I don't like them - unless I feel a real strong need to keep something unliked on hand for others, I won't replenish the item and am subject to give it away if someone else is more interested or has a better use for it.

Because of that, I don't have much on hand that I don't enjoy. Therefore when I make a mixed drink it usually is from something I do enjoy or what I do consider "better".

However, on the otherside of your question, there is also the tug-of-war and balance to avoid over-kill. Zacapa 23 year old in an everyday simple Pina Colada - to me that might be doing too much. I believe Scottes pointed to what some find at the heart of the matter - $$. While you specifically stated "better rums" many people tend to automatically associate "better" with more expensive.

While better often does cost a bit more, that isn't the only rule to follow - IMHO. For me there are an abundance of mid-range as well as a few cheap priced rums that are perfect for what I believe we are talking about (by my own taste at least).

What I'm more concerned about is balance. Does the mix destroy the rum? Is the rum too rich and a stand-out in contrast to the rest of the formula? And finally, if it is a drink where the rum is supposed to be completely concealed - does it make sense to use a rum that (A) can't be disguised or concealed and (B) costs a pretty penny to boot?

As Ed asserted, I don't do cola. I'd also describe myself as an infrequent mixer, so maybe my thoughts on this are not the most relevant.
Matusalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 03:54 AM   #6
Dood
Senior Member
 
Dood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 743
Default

For me it's about the right match.

I agree that better rums make better mixed drinks...however I'm not likely to take a bottle of Appleton 21 and mix it with Coke Zero. I've made an effort at finding rums that are good for mixing and rums that are good for sipping and keep a goodly amount of both in stock. There IS some crossover, and for that I take the approach of: If it makes you happy, it ain't bad (except for the idea of Appleton 21 and Coke Zero...I think that you have to register with some Rum Offender list at the police department if you do that).

For me, if a rum is good in both, and not costly, then I feel no pangs of guilt mixing it. If, on the other hand, procuring the rum takes a great deal of effort either from the wallet or my person, I keep it strictly for sipping - for example I only drink Admiral Rodney neat or with an ice cube and MAYBE a splash of water, because I can't replenish my stock very easily (I have to actually go to St. Lucia to do so).

Last edited by Dood; 08-04-2007 at 08:08 PM.
Dood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 07:44 PM   #7
Milicent
Senior Member
 
Milicent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 199
Default Thanks for the thoughts.

The idea of quality of mixers is one I hadn't considered beyond not using mixes and always using fresh ingredients. Good points all around and I appreciate your insights.

The comments re using better rums that get lost in the mix also makes a great point. I've discovered several rums I love neat that don't work at all when mixed. Lastly, mixing anything with Coke Zero is straight out nasty.
Milicent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2007, 08:39 PM   #8
Matusalem
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East of the Sun; West of the Moon
Posts: 573
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milicent View Post
The idea of quality of mixers is one I hadn't considered beyond not using mixes and always using fresh ingredients. Good points all around and I appreciate your insights.

The comments re using better rums that get lost in the mix also makes a great point. I've discovered several rums I love neat that don't work at all when mixed. Lastly, mixing anything with Coke Zero is straight out nasty.
Milicent,

I hope none of us came off as condescending in response. I thought this was a great question (personally).

I'm curious, and just to get a better idea, what personally do you think are "better rums" you've mixed? Also what are some things you feel are beneath your taste mixed or you've felt "better rums" would have better served?

I ask the question just to get an idea - I'm wondering whether some of the things you'll select as falling short, might be items some of us already ruled out.

I also realize there can be quite a difference between what one does in private versus what one does or is seen doing in a crowded environment (private party, club etc.). Obviously I think the "bulk" mentality is more prevalent where large audiences gather. With that "mentality" & setting, prep. time and other attention to detail factors (fresh ingredients etc.) are not abundant or practical given rapid demand - which those and other nuances may defeat the logic in using upper tier product as well.

I guess what I am trying to get an idea of is do you find true enthusiasts you know using crap or less than "better" because they think mixed rum drinks should be shaved down to the lowest cost denominator? Or have you perhaps viewed the large audience environment and concluded that reflects outside that specific arena?

Thanks!
Matusalem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2007, 04:56 PM   #9
Scottes
Senior Member
 
Scottes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, MA, USA
Posts: 435
Default

When I had posted my reply above I had actually planned on saying much more, but got interrupted and cut the reply short. Now I've found that Matusalem and Dood have succinctly said what I was going to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matusalem View Post
What I'm more concerned about is balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dood View Post
For me it's about the right match.
The original question - and the unspoken part of my answer - put me on a quest this weekend, a quest to make an excellent Rum Sidecar, aka an XYZ. Cognac is my second-favorite spirit, and a Sidecar is my favorite non-Tiki cocktail. I've found that a Sidecar is a cocktail that is usually good, sometimes excellent, and occasionally phenomenal - and it all depends on the overall balance and the complexity of the base spirit. IMHO.

So I played with several proportions and rums. The Clиment VSOP version was bland, the St James Ambre was a little unbalanced, the Ron Zacapa 23 was very good but a bit dull, and the Flor De Cana 21 version was overwhelmed by the rum.

In many ways this initial experiment was a flop, since none of them were worthwhile, but it did contain some valuable lessons. The primary lesson I learned was that the correct rum is important, regardless of its price or quality or whether it's a "better" rum or not.

Now I just have to find the correct rum for this cocktail.
Scottes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2007, 08:57 PM   #10
Hank Koestner
Senior Member
 
Hank Koestner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 1,318
Post My take on "Better Rums"

There are many classic recipes that call for specific rums; evidence of the experimentation that goes into creating a good cocktail. It still comes down to a matter of taste. I have a few rums that I will not mix, these were born of the still to be consumed neat or with a touch of water. I am not a big fan of the fruit juice type rum cocktail, but will try them and enjoy them from time to time. I prefer my rum neat or with a little ice, and I lean towards basics like rum and ginger and rum and tonic. Or, perhaps, a drink like a good Rum Manhatten. I think the difference might be is that some rums do not stand as well on thier own, and might be better suitable for mixing. It still comes down to personal taste, and price is always a factor. I too, I must admit, will not drink cola or put sprite in my Mojito. I always try the recommended recipe first, then I may substitute another rum to see the difference. I do believe that ingredients are very important, as Ed mentioned, a bad vermouth could change the taste of a great rum. This was a great topic for discussion!!!
So, pour and mix what you like, and enjoy!!
__________________
Rum is the answer. What was the question?
Hank Koestner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Rum Lovers @ the Ministry of Rum > Sugar Cane Spirits > Rum questions/discussions

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quest for "The Ultimate Rum Runner" Part 2 azisme Mixers, Water, Ice and Glasses 4 06-09-2009 12:16 AM
UK: WIRSPA unveils rum "marque of provenance" Edward Hamilton Rum News 22 05-11-2008 01:02 PM
Quest for "The Ultimate Rum Runner" Part 1 azisme Mixers, Water, Ice and Glasses 6 02-22-2008 11:08 PM
"Starter" Rums Scottes Rum questions/discussions 23 02-02-2008 07:39 PM


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 03:37 PM.


Rum Chat
Recent Posts
Late Summer Special Offers At Waitrose
posted by Berbician
New members
posted by BITCRAZY
How Am I Just Finding This Place?
posted by Berbician
Over 100 year bottles of rum
posted by Edward Hamilton
Rum Chat
posted by graybeard
Havana Club
posted by Berbician
Santa Teresa Bicentenario
posted by Fabio
Last month this site was viewed more than 750,000 times by the best people in the world - those who appreciate rum.
Ministry of Rum on
facebook link
Follow @Ed_Hamilton on

vB ver 3.8.6 Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content on this forum copyright 1995 - 2015 Ministry of Rum.