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Dark Rums

Gold, Brown, Red or Black how do you enjoy them?


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Old 04-25-2008, 04:07 AM   #11
EssentialSpirits
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Alberto,

Wonderful to see you on here.

Thanks much for clarifying about your amazing product. I typically pride myself on being able to find anything on the internet... so it bothered me when i couldn't find more information regarding the Pancho 23

I hope to have the good fortune to try this rum again... or better yet, buy unas botellas for myself
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberto Fariсez View Post
...
It would not be fair for me to compare Pachano Nє 23 to Diplomatico Reserva Especial nor Pampero Aniversario. What I would like to point out is that all Venezuelan rums are great; there are only different categories:

Aguardiente (not aged)
Rum Liquor (aged less than 2 years)
Aсejo : Standard (aged from 2 to 4 years)
Extra Aсejo : Premium (aged from 4 to 6 years)
Aсejo Super Premium
Aсejo Ultra Premium
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the clarification.

No offense intended, but what determines inclusion in the "Anejo Super Premium" and "Anejo Ultra Premium" categories? Without clarifying such distinctions, it seems a bit arbitrary to elevate your rums thereby, excluding the competition. Pampero Anniversario, for instance, has a stated age of 6-8 years. Does that make it "Super Premium"?
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:38 AM   #13
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Welcome to the forums. I'm glad to see that you're working to bring more fine rums to the US. I look forward to tasting more of your hard work.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberto Fariсez View Post
Pachano Nє 23
Ron Aсejo Sъper Premium (RASP)


Pachano Nє 23 of Fariсez of extraordinary body, elegant flavor and fine aroma, meticulous blend of pure natural spring water and the most delicate reserves of 23 years of aging, granting wonderful body of thick tears and slow fall.

Let your senses be transported to the exotic land of Venezuela and experience the amazing flavor of the tropical rain forest of Carъpano, perceive its oak notes, with sweet and fruity memoirs, also vanilla, leather, tobacco, butterscotch and roasted hints, attaining the most refined and genuine Venezuelan rum: [B]Pachano Nє 23 of Fariсez.

Mmmm... great marketing... my mouth is watering... I MUST have a bottle now...
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:30 PM   #15
Alberto Fariсez
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Default Raup & Rasp

Thanks all for a warm welcome. Ed, it is nice to see you here! I hope that soon enough you all be able taste these rums in the US.

Well … hereafter I will try to explain, in my limited English, the Ron Aсejo Super Premium (RASP) and Ron Aсejo Ultra Premium (RAUP).

We all know that labels like Super Premium, Ultra Premium and now even Hyper Premium may refer to just a marketing selling line. RASP & RAUP are part of a personal project for the future. They are intended to be a “Stamp of Quality” or “Aging Insurance” for the consumer.

We all also know that in the Vodka world it is very complex to define what makes a product premium, super or ultra premium. It seems to me, that most of the time pricing is the only factor to evaluate. In the Cognac world everything is very well organized and controlled, so the aging of the product is very clear: VS – Very Special - 2 years in barrels, VSOP – Very Superior Old Pale - 4 years in barrels and XO – eXtra Old - 10 years in barrels. There are some others, not official but commonly known like Napolйon which normally means a cognac between VSOP and XO, and can vary from 8 to 20 years. There are some rums out there with the labels VS, VSOP and XO but, is this really a guarantee of rum aging?

Here is another question to all, if a spirit (cognac, rum, brandy, etc.) sits on a barrel for 10 years, is it really aging? For me, it is not like that. It would really be aging if the barrel has something to give to the spirit, if the barrel is in good conditions, if the humidity/temperature are doing their job too, well is a group of factors that will contribute to the aging. Having a spirit in a useless barrel for ten years, is like having a spirit in a good barrel for 3 years, maybe less depending on other factors.

Moreover, rum aging legislation vary for every rum producer country, been Venezuelan legislation one the harshest. In some countries you can name your product rum with our even seeing a barrel, while in others it would need to be a least 2 or 3 years in a barrel. In some countries it is allowed to refill the “Angels Share” in others not. So, if you have a rum for years in a barrel, but you have been refilling the losses every year, what would be the real age of the rum after X years? On another level, most of the rums are blends of different ages. So, what would be the real age of the blend?

Considering the above mentioned and some other factors, I figured that a “fair” way to tell the consumer that a rum has a Super Premium or Ultra Premium quality is because of the “Real” aging of the product. The only way to do so would be considering the quantities of esters and tannins present in the rum, which would only develop during the “woodyness” and “esterification” of the cask aging process. The requirements are:

RAUP 1000 parts per million total esters and 850 parts per million in tannins

RASP 750 parts per million total esters and 650 parts per million in tannins

These aging/quality labels are not exclusive of Macuro or Pachano; any rum form any where could get it as long as the requirements are fulfilled.

I hope that this is not too boring and answers the question of Michael.
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Old 04-25-2008, 05:46 PM   #16
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Thanks Alberto for the informative response. Would that my Spanish or French were as limited as your English. The answers are much appreciated and certainly not boring.

Doesn't the angel's share have to come from equal aged casks for the age statement to be unassailable? Aren't ester levels partially determined by method of distillation, i.e. pot still rums are often described as high ester? Wouldn't production in a wooden still skew tannin levels?

Can you give us some idea how you arrived at the levels of esters and tannins determining your proposed categories?
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
It seems to me, that most of the time pricing is the only factor to evaluate.
Relative to the vodka world... yes. DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

It's dizzying walking down the vodka aisle and seeing premium, super premium, ultra premium, super hyper uber premium. The only thing really getting premium... is the price!

Last edited by primate77; 04-25-2008 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
The answers are much appreciated and certainly not boring.

Doesn't the angel's share have to come from equal aged casks for the age statement to be unassailable?
Distillers commonly use rum from an equal or older cask of rum to top off the barrels, once a year or every couple of years. Though that isn't always the case, especially if there isn't going to be an age statement on the barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael View Post
Aren't ester levels partially determined by method of distillation, i.e. pot still rums are often described as high ester? Wouldn't production in a wooden still skew tannin levels?
A wooden stills have much of the tannins stripped from them in the course of a few years. The combination of heat and alcohol makes a very efficient solvent.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:53 PM   #19
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Thank you, Alberto, for taking the time to give such a detailed response!
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:42 PM   #20
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Bienvenidos Alberto!...Mi Espanol tan malo..Tu Engles es perfecto!

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing such wonderful information about your upcoming projects.

I think your proposal for using Parts Per Million of Esters and Tannins to define standards is reasonable on the face of it.

As Michael mentioned in an earlier post, Most esters are carried over from the distillation. My understanding is that some esterification can occur from further oxidation in ageing. And the measurement of tannins to indicate new barrel ageing is well taken.

These measurements can be achieved by many methods.

To be the "Devils Advocate" here...A Producer could blend a Heavy rum with oak "chips" and frame the same flavor profile you have defined, in parts per million.

Please understand that I am not attacking you...I am just curious..rather than furious, as you progress your venture.
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