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Old 04-26-2009, 09:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanpatt View Post
I'd like to know if anyone has a lead on smaller French oak barrels in North America?
I have not found any provider in North America (or elsewhere) for small French Oak kegs. It may be worth noting that the French have been importing oak from the former Country of Yugoslavia and using it in ageing wine and spirits for a long time now.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:21 PM   #22
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KrustyKrab - in your bottle set ups when you varied the toast and char did you keep the size of the wood standard? What sort of char vs size ratio worked out best?
I'm interested in how the Apple wood changed the flavor - I have use Wild Cherry from my property and it is much subtler and slower infusing than Oak. None of the sweet flavors I would expect but a softer char flavor that seems better suited to Rum.
Have you had good results with any other woods?
Arctic, as to how long the rum was in the barrel when I noticed over-oakeyness: there may be contributions from the barrel being new as well - bitter tannins that you all are talking about as well, but I put rum in (after a week soaking in water) on New Year's eve, then I tasted on or about the 10th (slight flavor imparted) then the twins came home and I have not even thought about them(edit:the barrel, not the twins!) until this thread came up - so almost 5 months! Clearly needs more constant attention!

Sailor, yes the bottle set up is quite easy to use and nice. I am mainly using wood from my property (though I have read to use untreated lumber from the supplier is ok...?) So, I take slices of tree (after drying 6mos-1yr+) about 6 inches thick and chop them up with an ax/hatchet until they are approx 1cmX1cm and the 6 inches long, then I like to toast / char on my wood burning grill. I control the amount of char by wrapping the strips in heavy duty aluminum foil.

As you note, oak seems to give the fastest / boldest infusion of flavor then other woods. I do like it a lot, but it needs to be watched more closely then the others. Apple and Beech were more subtle. I like the beech as well - turns out a nice golden color (no matter how charred the wood) and has adistinct subtle smell of beech wood on the nose - very enjoyable. Apple is similar - not sweet, as you saw with the cherry, a subtle hint perhaps of apple, very mild in color and smokiness, also quite enjoyable.

I wonder about sugar maple as well? Perhaps a fall cut tree would have less resins then in the spring and would come out nice - sweet??? Birch also might be interesting. All of these would be very subtle, I suspect, but kinda cool to play around with! A piece of oak driftwood... hmmm? would it taste of the sea?
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:26 PM   #23
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Krusty - I have a Sugar Maple infusion starting this weekend. Doing both Rum and Bourbon.
So far the Cherry is the most controllable - it doesn't get "woody" very quickly so it is harder to forget and let it sit too long. It also doesn't soften the alc. edge as well either.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:41 AM   #24
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Default Whisky Tasting

I was lucky enough to attend a Glenmorangie Whisky tasting last night that was hosted by a Moet/Hennessy rep. from Martinique. The interesting thing about it was the varities of barrels they use to extra age 3 of their products.
The Original is aged for 10 years in once used Bourbon barrels and air-dried Ozark American Oak.
The Nectar D'Or is aged the same way as the Original then given 2 extra years in Sauternes barrels.
The Lasanta is aged the same as the Original then given 2 extra years in Sherry Barrels.
The Quinta Ruban is aged the sameway as the Original then given 2 extra years in Port Pipes.
The colours were all different as were the taste profiles. The closest to rum was the Lasanta in colour, aroma and taste. I was lucky to sit next to two of my rum converts and we compared them to various fine rums.
I have started a barrel of my own with some white and ruby port in it at home. I plan to fill it with some white rum in a few weeks time, maybe Barbancourt for a change. Then I plan to try the sherry approach next as the Lasanta was so good, but it was a close choice next to the Quinta Ruban. Most of the other tasters felt the same. The Original was surprisingly light in colour and taste after 10 years in oak.
All in all a great experience and good to meet someone who lives in Martinique and promises to bring me some Neisson Rhum on his next visit!! I plan to pick his brain today on 10 Cane.
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Old 05-01-2009, 02:37 PM   #25
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Yes! The folks at Glenmorangie are masters at refinishing. Before this current line with the cool names and curvy bottles, they had port, burgundy, sherry and madeira finished single malts. All of them were great with the port my favorite. These new ones have upped the ante. Their products, and Forrest's gifts of rare samples, led me to rum finished single malts. The Balvenie's is so good, I just cracked my second bottle.

I guess that this is why I am such a fan of the Murray McDavid's. While they are not the best of the best, each one is a bit of a "challenge" for me. I mean that they blur the line somewhat between rum and the refinishing barrel. My only problem with the newer Renegades is that the price is quite high.

To close, let's keep this thread alive with more experimentation and reporting.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:39 PM   #26
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Ahhh! Nector D'or, one of my favourite of the Scottish Malts. And Balvenie is very good too especially the new Doublewood.

I find it very interesting that the best malts all seem to be aged in first run bourbon barrels. In fact so many of the great Scotch malts claim to be aged in first run bourbon barrels that I seriously wander where all the bourbon ended up. Surely there is not enough bourbon drank world wide to supply all these barrels for Scotland.

As a side note I would warn you that enhancing in Sherry Casks is very tricky. I agree that La Santa tastes great, but for every great Sherry enhanced product I have tasted there have been many more that were very sulfurous instead. Personally I have had great success with ruby Port enhancement (with the Graham's Ports being my favourite), but I have never dared to try Sherry. I am not sure what the problem with Sherry is, although I note that in the last edition of Jim Murray's Whiskey Bible, Jim mentions the sulfur problem a lot of the sherry cask products.

It will be really interesting to learn of your experiences Rumelier.

On the Renegade Rum front I was just given a partial bottle of the Guyana 1995 UITVLUGHT and I must say that I was extremely disappointed. The nose is very medicinal and the product tasted to me more like a very dry Wine/Scotch coupling, than a Rum. I was expecting a demerara quality since the rum was from Guyana but The time spent in The french Y'Quem Casks really changed the flavour.

I will probably do a review after a few more tastings (I hope this one gets better with time).
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Arctic Wolf View Post
Ahhh! Nector D'or, one of my favourite of the Scottish Malts. And Balvenie is very good too especially the new Doublewood.

I find it very interesting that the best malts all seem to be aged in first run bourbon barrels. In fact so many of the great Scotch malts claim to be aged in first run bourbon barrels that I seriously wander where all the bourbon ended up. Surely there is not enough bourbon drank world wide to supply all these barrels for Scotland.

As a side note I would warn you that enhancing in Sherry Casks is very tricky. I agree that La Santa tastes great, but for every great Sherry enhanced product I have tasted there have been many more that were very sulfurous instead. Personally I have had great success with ruby Port enhancement (with the Graham's Ports being my favourite), but I have never dared to try Sherry. I am not sure what the problem with Sherry is, although I note that in the last edition of Jim Murray's Whiskey Bible, Jim mentions the sulfur problem a lot of the sherry cask products.

It will be really interesting to learn of your experiences Rumelier.

On the Renegade Rum front I was just given a partial bottle of the Guyana 1995 UITVLUGHT and I must say that I was extremely disappointed. The nose is very medicinal and the product tasted to me more like a very dry Wine/Scotch coupling, than a Rum. I was expecting a demerara quality since the rum was from Guyana but The time spent in The french Y'Quem Casks really changed the flavour.

I will probably do a review after a few more tastings (I hope this one gets better with time).
Lucid descriptions, as always, Artic Wolf! While I have not purchased the Renegade version of the Uitvlught 1995, I have their 1992 Murray McDavid. Funny, I wholeheartedly agree with your account of the nose and taste. However, these were the surprising aspects of this rum which both surprised and delighted me. It just goes to show, again, that we are not all stamped from the same die!

I know that here are times when I want my rum, well, RUM. Then, there are times when I want something different. I certainly agree with you that the MMcD Uitvlught 1992 is, by taste, a whisky.
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:38 PM   #28
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Default Port Aging

I'm just sampling a small glass of rum (despite my sore liver!!) that has been aged very briefly in a small oak barrel that I had poured two bottles of port in, one tawny, one ruby. The barrel was a gift from Angostura and I had had a couple of bottles of 1824 in it before. I left the port for only about 3 weeks then moved it to another barrel. I then poured in two bottles of Bambarra Silver 2 Year Old Rum that I had laying around as they had no labels. It has only been in the barrel for a week or so and what a difference. It has come out red/brown and tastes pretty good, lots of ports notes mixed in with the oak and vanilla. Very drinkable even neat. I had rotated the barrel a little bit every day while it had the port in it. The next barrel I'm going to use Barbancourt White to see what happens, I think the French flavour will be interesting. Then I think some sherry might be interesting or some heavy California Cab. I have some old barrels staves lying around that I might turn into oak chips for some extra influence. I think I might have to start keeping notes as this is fun!!
Mahogany grows wild here, has anybody heard of mahogany aging???
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:50 PM   #29
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I've been ageing some Ron Canita Alambique in a 5 liter American oak barrel.

I'll be bringing a bottle along to the Taste of Rum Festival in San Juan this weekend.

Hope your liver is in shape by then Bob!
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:49 AM   #30
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Hi Vanpatt

Thought I would update you on my latest cask creation. My experiment with double casking Scotch was a roaring success. As my Base spirit I used Macallum Cask Strenght 12yr Old Scotch (25 % of total spirit). I added to this two parts of a very acrid Bruichladdich 18 year Old Rum Cask Scotch (50 % of total spirit). I also added 12 yr Glenfiddich (20 % of total) and Bowmore 10 yr old. (5 %).

The Bruichladdich was undrinkable in its present form. A disastrous product dumped into the Alberta Market which unfortunately I bought thinking that this company's scotch could never be bad. (Should have read Jim Murray's Whiskey Bible beforehand.) The GlenFiddich was okay but not spectacular, and the Bowmore was another disaster saturated with coarse charcaol.

I put the blend into a fresh cask which had been aced with Bourbon for two weeks. (Woodford Reserve) I left the blend in the cask for 10 weeks. At this point I had a drinkable blend but it was not spectacular. I moved the blend into a year old cask which had been used continously for the past year on a variety of spirits. I had flushed this cask with water for a week and then Aced it with Grahams 6 grape ruby port for two weeks.

The spirit aged for only six weeks in the port with me tasting it each week. At week four the taste profile started to change rapidly. So rapidly that I had to taste each day. The flavour peaked near the end of the sixth week and I noticed a slight numbing of the flavour at the end of that week. I bottled the spirit instantly.

What went in the barrel at the start was quite frankly something which I would be unable to drink. What came out was heavenly. I had a little party on the weekend and served this scotch side by side with Old Parr 15 yr Old blended Scotch. (For the uninitiated this is considered one of the very best blends in the world if not one of the very best whiskeys.) Everybody in attendance at my party loved my blend equally to the Old Parr. (Well except for my Sister in law who doesn't count.)

Now Scotch is far different from Rum but what i learned from this is that the bourbon has a tremendous synergy with the port. I also learned the value of continuous tasting to get the product bottled at just the right time.

Hope this is interesting as well as helpful. It sure was fun.
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