Octane boost?

[Matusalem]

It seems like at least several of us have ventured pretty far off into creating our own experimental elixers. What I'm contemplating is with some of my infusion / flavorings, I'd like to take the abv. up a notch at the infusing level (most of what I have is standard 80°, I'd like to bump some upcoming things towards 90°-100°.

I'm not very seasoned in over-proof rums, and am wondering what if any that maintain higher alcohol percentages have rum qualities that you might think are good for this purpose? The couple of 151s I've tasted were more or less flame throwing fuel. Suggestions?

[Edward Hamilton]

Take a look at this thread (http://ministryofrum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1897&postcount=2) where overproof rums and infusions are discussed. Along the line of this discussion I had the opportunity to meet Desmond Payne, Master Distiller, Beefeater Gin who gave me more insight into the process of infusing botanicals with high proof spirits.

As you may know, all gin is made by infusing grain neutral spirits with botanicals of which juniper is the only one which is required in order for the final product to be called gin. Beefeater starts with 192 proof alcohol from another grain distiller then dilutes that to 120 proof. To this 120 alcohol they add the secret formula of botanicals for 24 hours. That infusion is then distilled to 160 proof in a number of pot stills. The size of the pot still affects the distillate with different size pots giving more or less of the earthy root flavors.

I was also interested to learn that Beefeater distills only five days a week so that which is distilled on Monday has been infused for 3 days instead of the usual 1 day. This distillate is different from that which is made on the other days of the week but is used to make the final blend.

The important part of this is that by using several different stills and different infusion times, the variances from batch to batch can be blended to yield a consistent product which is one of the requirements to be bottled as Beefeater Gin.

Desmond was the distiller at Plymouth Gin before joining Beefeater 14 years ago. He has worked in the distilling industry for the past 40 years, so he knows something about the process.

Good luck with the mason jars.

[Matusalem]

Thanks, Edward.

I have a friend who re-barrels whiskey and expirements. Usually he'll use Everclear to raise the roof a little. Your speaking of the Beefeater process I assume was to give an idea of how intricate the process of infusion can get but was not a suggestion that I start with or look at grain neutral spirit - or is that perhaps what you are suggesting as an option?

As I believe you stated I'm interested in putting my working materials together prior to the infusion & flavoring process - not to top it off and make a higher proof floater - I'd simply do that in a glass after the initial pour (and perhaps throw a struck match on it... "and now for my next trick" ;))

I think my question may have been answered for the most part. I' became stuck between whether flavorless diesel might actually be the way to go and might take on the most flavor from infusion - it sounds like indeed you are saying that is what would happen. OR the other position which Scottes (I think mentioned) wanting to start out with something I felt comfortable with outside of experimenting.

I suppose since I'm only trying to go up so far, I can use something decent along with some jet fuel. Any suggestions you have as an over-proofer that's available (US) preferably north of 100є?

[Scottes]

At times like this I'm not so sure you'd get anything good... So I think about adding something that doesn't add anything truly horrendous. For instance, W&N tastes too much like "diesel" and it's only 126-proof. In the end you get a lot of diesel because you have to add so much to get it up to the proof you want. Lemon Hart 151 is probably too strong with fusel tastes and may easily overpower what you're trying to create. And what about Bacardi 151? That may actually be a decent middle-of-the-road rum to use. It ain't great, but nothing in it is so bad that it couldn't be used.

Then again, Everclear may be raw, but at 190-proof you'd add a lot less than the other to get it to the proof you want...

[Matusalem]

How is Hana Bay or Cruzan 151ers, respectively?

Is there a clear 151º or higher than 100º that is available stateside, as I recall (barely) Bacardi 151 has some age and color to it - right?

[stockdoct]

I'm confused

You're looking to make a higher-alcohol rum, but you and everyone readily admits higher alcohol equates with poorer flavor. "Diesel" ? Why would anyone emulate that flavor for a cocktail? yuch. Do we really think we can improve the flavor of rum by adding Everclear??? If you want a good buzz, wouldn't it be nicer to enjoy two shots of great rum, than a single shot of bad-tasting overproof?

So I guess the fundamental question is ...... why do you aim in the first place, for a rum to have with a higher alcohol level?

[Dood]

I'm confused

You're looking to make a higher-alcohol rum, but you and everyone readily admits higher alcohol equates with poorer flavor. "Diesel" ? Why would anyone emulate that flavor for a cocktail? yuch. Do we really think we can improve the flavor of rum by adding Everclear??? If you want a good buzz, wouldn't it be nicer to enjoy two shots of great rum, than a single shot of bad-tasting overproof?

So I guess the fundamental question is ...... why do you aim in the first place, for a rum to have with a higher alcohol level?

The reason for wanting a higher proof is that the higher proof lends itself to better infusions. Something about higher proof lending itself to a larger surface area for flavor absorption in some chemical fashion. At least that's what I've read in the infusion threads, I think. :)

[Matusalem]

What Dood said.

Although I'm weighing it heavily. I'm not interested in having a 151 solution at the end. I'd like to wind up with something over 90, and if possible, as Scottes was hinting in the other thread, I'd like to make the base something that I don't detest to begin with. I'm wondering if I'm only moving to 90-100, am I going to get that much better an infusion extraction, or since it isn't that much, give in to too much unpleasant flavor?

Then again, I've used some things that I don't really care for before to flavor or as parts of blends I've put together and the finished product has been quite a bit more likeable than the original - particularly a cachacas I burried in fruit.

[Scottes]

How is Hana Bay or Cruzan 151ers, respectively?

Is there a clear 151є or higher than 100є that is available stateside, as I recall (barely) Bacardi 151 has some age and color to it - right?
Yes, Bacardi 151 has some age and color.

I've never seen Cruzan 151, but I'd certainly grab a bottle to try that. Knowing their other tendencies in rums it would probably be excellent for what you're doing. Does Flor De Cana make an overproof?

[Hank Koestner]

What about using water to dilute the 151 down to 90 or 100? Or, infusing the rum as you wish, then diluting? It may soften the intense flavors of the overproof rums. Finding a lower proof rum to blend with a higher proof rum to reduce the ABV will take much experimentation. If I may suggest, a bottle of Trois Riveres blanc rhum agricole starts at 100, and is not as intense in flavor as other high proof agricoles.La Favorite or Neisson could work also. If you could find a bottle, you might be able to infuse without having to blend.

[Matusalem]

If I may suggest, a bottle of Trois Riveres blanc rhum agricole starts at 100.Where are you picking this up. I haven't seen it locally, thus far.

I am considering La Favorite although that isn't exactly something to screw around with. Have any of you tried Chauffe Coeur's 108є product?

[Hank Koestner]

I tasted it in the Islands, it is hard to find here. I know, La Favorite so good on its own, it is hard to experiment with, and not extremely expensive, but not cheap either.

[RobertBurr]

One of the all time most interesting high proof rums comes from St. Vincent. Sunset Very High Proof rum has a delicious nose of butterscotch, but the mouth feel is out of this world. That's what the locals love about it. They also make a 80 proof Captain Bligh that's quite popular with those that can't or won't drink the high test. It burns a beautiful blue flame, so it makes a nice presentation in flaming desserts, etc.

[Hank Koestner]

I have a friend who has family on St. Vincent, and she speaks of the high proof rum. They use it for many infusions. I have a bottle of Captain Bligh at 80 proof that she brought back for me. It is a delicious rum, smooth and balanced. If the overproof is anything like this as Robert says, it might be great for infusions. Once again, it must be hard to find.

[Matusalem]

. . .yes and my yacht is still on lay-away along with the Bently and Cartier wears, lol. Can you guys direct me to some things I might find with-in swimming or driving distance?:p

[Edward Hamilton]

When you consider the fact that a liter of 100 proof spirit contains 62% more alcohol than a 750ml bottle of 80 proof spirit, you'll discover that a $30 bottle of 100 proof spirit is equivalent to about $18 for a 750ml bottle at 80 proof.

[Matusalem]

I guess that was a poor analogy - (adding the Bentley and Cartier), but what I really meant is I was hoping to get some ideas and items that didn't require chartering a plane or purchasing caribean cruise tickets. Some of the "you might try" suggestions sound like they require a passport to acquire.

[Hank Koestner]

Some of these rums used to be available on different internet sites. I have not been able to shop around as much as I used to. I think you can get Neisson From New York. Internet Wine and Spirits used to carry Neisson and La Favorite, and I believe at one time I saw the overproof from St. Vincent.
I purchased them myself on line some time ago. I apologize Matusalem, I kind of assumed you were checking the internet. I was just relating where I tasted them and purchased some others, on my prior trips. I used to purchase more off the sites than I do now.

[Matusalem]

I used to purchase more off the sites than I do now.No worries, this is me also.

I can get La Favorite here without problem, but the other items I've basically only heard about in casual conversation, but not seen shelved in any of the shops I frequent.

[Edward Hamilton]

I don't see any point in raising the proof of an infusion by adding overproof alcohol after the infusion has been made. The point of starting with an overproof alcohol is to extract the flavor from the fruit, spice, etc. Alcohol is the solvent in this equation, once the infusion has been made dilution can be a tricky process, just dumping in some water probably isn't the best way to do it. Dilution should be done by blending water a little at a time while stirring. The best distilleries take as much as a week to dilute from aged strength to bottled strength.

Just as adding young rum to aged rum doesn't make the young rum a lot better, adding unaged overproof alcohol to an infusion isn't going to improve the taste but will raise the proof.

[RobertBurr]

You won't see the St. Vincent Sunset Very High Proof Rum in the US as long as the legal limit here is 153 proof.

[Scottes]

I've heard this mentioned a couple times, and I'm kinda baffled since Everclear is available in the US, and it's 190 proof. Is that 153 proof limited to rums? Or is it limited to imports?

[Matusalem]

I could be wrong, but I think CA has a 151 limit. If I'm not mistaken the Everclear marketed here is cut to requirement. Maybe where ever RobertB is, has a similar restriction?

[Scottes]

I did find a link stating that Florida (where Robert is) and California are set to a max of 153 proof, but I couldn't find anything for any other states.

[Edward Hamilton]

You won't see the St. Vincent Sunset Very High Proof Rum in the US as long as the legal limit here is 153 proof.

There is no federal legal limit on how much alcohol can be in rum. Everclear, sold in many major markets is 190 proof. New York City and Chicago also restrict the proof of spirits, but high proof spirits are sold in both of New York state and Illinois.

Sunset Strong Rum, 160 proof, is being imported and sold in the US, but you have to look for it.

In addition to the health problems associated with over proof spirits, the liability associated with transporting hazardour, flammable, material is also a consideration.

[RobertBurr]

I was dismayed to have a bottle of Bacardi 151 taken from me on a flight that stopped in Houston from Los Angeles on the way to Miami a dozen years ago. I was informed that the product was not only flammable, it was combustible. High school physics suggests the distillate must be atomized to become combustible, but this point was lost on the those in a position to take the rum from me (to drink it later, no doubt).

My Sunset Very High Proof Rum was tucked away with dirty socks last time it arrived in Miami to avoid any potential issues.

[Edward Hamilton]

It has been illegal to carry or transport alcohol over 140 proof on domestic or international flights for many years. Texas has some of the best, depending on how you look at it, inspectors in the airline industry. Over 140 proof alcohol is quite flammable and although the alcohol fire can be extinguished with water it can spread quickly to other material and has therefore considered hazardous material.

[Joe Riley]

Sunset Strong Rum, 160 proof, is being imported and sold in the US, but you have to look for it.
I don't currently carry the Sunset Rums, but they are available to me, including the 160 overproof. If anyone in the Washington, D.C. area is interested in them, please let me know.