Murray & McDavid Rums

[Scottes]

Has anyone had any of the Murray & McDavid rums? I found a few at a store in NYC, and their descriptions certainly sound interesting but I'm too timid to drop $65 on an unknown.

[Hank Koestner]

I have heard mixed reviews about them, and they are on my list to taste someday. I agree that I would hesitate to drop 65 without a taste,
unless it came highly recomended.;)

[Edward Hamilton]

I've only tasted a couple of them but hope to give some more reviews after next week when I'm in London for the Rum Festival. I don't like to review spirits until I've had the time to really get to know them which means drinking more than a quick taste on a panel or at a trade show.

[Scottes]

Heck, even a sip at a panel would give me a hint as to whether I was completely wasting my money or not. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll be at RumFest in NYC.

[Matusalem]

Scottes,

I've only tasted 2 - the Guyana (I believe it was), and the Nicaraguan just recently.

For me it depends on how you look at, as far as the waste of money inquiry goes. They are definitely what I'd describe as "different". In that regard if you like 'different', they are a good sub in a rotation. If you are not into different and generally stick with traditional rum profiles, these might not suit you in the value department.

For me the $65 is a bit prohibitive. If they were $45 or south of, I'd be all over them. While they are different in an interesting way, I've had a hard time convincing myself they were $60+ worth of difference and interest.

This of course is my own logic and spending tactics.

[Scottes]

I managed to pass them up. As much as I was interested, everything I've heard echoes what you said - they're just not good enough to warrant that price tag.

Maybe one day I'll run into them at a tasting...

[scheer]

The rums are genuin, meaning if an age is mentioned it is the real age, which is an extra point in favor in this grey area in the world of rums.

The rums are released for bottling after making sure that the quality is up to standard.

Under strict UK spirits law, you get what the label says what is in the bottle. The bottled rums come from rare and unique parcels. And when its gone, its gone. So one of qualities.

Its up to the final consumer to judge the quality, but for sure these are non tweeked genuin unique rums.

[Matusalem]

scheer,

I don't think you'll get any disagreement are argument about the integrity of the rum or products in general that McEwan or Murray McDavid put their signature on.

OTOH (on the other hand), there might be some miscalculation as to what the every day rum drinker intends to spend or has in their rum budget. To me both MM and Cadenhead have a good thing going but they've placed themselves in my self described "special purchases" category.

To give some reference I have 15+ Murray McDavid bottled single malts. Only one of them cost more than $60. Only 1 other cost me more than $50. The rest were $35-$45. Of course these are all a few years old now, but even when they were new to the market they were very reasonably priced for single malt whiskies. I have 0 bottles of Murray McDavid rum, and a part of the reason is because $65 is not the average rum price in my neighborhood.

[Don Piero]

I have had the great pleasure of meeting Jim McEwan Master Distiller of Bruichladdich and Murray McDavid, formerly of Bowmore) on more than one occasion at a Scotch Club in Toronto (Companions of the Quaich). But this premium priced rum appears to be a cash grab. In terms of Scotch, I find many of the bottlings from Murray McDavid that I have sampled, have been OK (none have been stellar). The prices in Toronto are for the most part between $75-$100 which is similar to many in the same age category. I have bought several bottles in the past through our scotch club and all have been 700ml (short changing me 50ml in comparison to all other bottlings). All of their bottlings (of Scotch) are released as limited edition.

Here is another cash grab/scam that has bugged me about Murray McDavid. I sampled an independent distillers bottling of Bruichladdich (single malt) made by Murray McDavid at our club - What is scammish is that Murray McDavid owns Bruichladdich where Bruichladdich is released and sold as a single malt. They try to pass the Murray McDavid release as an independant distillers version - who are they trying to kid.

[Dood]

I have a bottle of the Jamaican Murray McDavid as a gift from my brother. It's definitely rougher around the edges than one would expect for such a high-priced rum. It's pot-still origin is very evident, and it has quite a bit of burn as I recall from my initial taste.

I've got a full review planned for it, but it'll be a while as I'm trying to focus on the more readily available, easily locatable rums for the month of January (Ron Matusalem Gran Reserva is up next, along with Appleton Estate V/X).

[martincate]

We keep the whole range at Forbidden Island.

As they are bottled in Scotland and taken to bottle proof with rather peaty spring water, they are very unusual products. All are fairly dry, and I find they appeal to my scotch drinkers. The Nicaragua to me is the most "rum-like", while the Trinidad is the most "scotch-like", if that makes sense.

However, everyone has enjoyed them and most people have been back for more- they definitely have fans.

The two Guyana ones are good examples of the differences brought on from a secondary cask finish, as both began with identical spirits. Overall, I think they're a valuable and interesting experiment, if not something I would personally reach for everyday.

[angelsword]

I recently recieved a bottle of Murray McDavid 13 yr Guyana rum, Uitvlught - Port Morant. Thanks Dood!

Label on this one says:
Distillation 1991, Pot Still
Cask Type Bourbon / Syrah
Enhanced in Guigal Hermitage casks
Bruichladdich 2005
1500 Bottles
46% ABV

Does the double listing on cask type (Bourbon/Syrah) mean that the cask was twice used previously, or a cask built from 2 types of other casks, or twice barreled prior to going to Islay for re barreling?

Appearance: Honey pear colored, LOTS of floaties in the bottle, white sediment at the bottom.

Nose: I am immediately reminded of Sea Wynde. So I grab a bottle of the Wynde for comparison. Yes, very close indeed! Same distiller? MM is softer milder with a hint of french oak. More complex. Is that a hint of peat?

Taste: Sour, light bitterness, hallelujah no caramel!. This has to be the same distiller as a major component of Sea Wynde. But the different casks have had an effect. Broader flavor. Mellower. Roses, banana, cognac. I am somehow reminded of the smell of boy's gym in my high school: sweat, testosterone, dirty socks. But not as disagreeable somehow as I have usually found Sea Wynde.

I bring out a bottle of Bruichladdich 20 yr Scotch for comparison. The taste of the WATER is noticeable when the 2 are tasted side by side. Or maybe it is just the same palate of the master blender.

Long slightly bitter linger.

Very interesting, but doubt if I would buy another.

[Dood]

The similarity to Sea Wynde is something I noticed when I opened the Jamaican. I agree that they must both use the same primary distiller for their blends.

The Jamaican seems a little less jagged than the Sea Wynde does. Same visible particulate that you mention with the Guyana.

For the money, this rum doesn't seem worth it.

[Matusalem]

Does the double listing on cask type (Bourbon/Syrah) mean that the cask was twice used previously, or a cask built from 2 types of other casks, or twice barreled prior to going to Islay for re barreling?I assume it means for a period of time the rum was put in a used bourbon barrel and then for a period of time the contents of the bourbon barrel was emptied and finished in a syrah cask / barrel. Maybe the order is off but I'd assume it was twice finished or as McEwan calls 'finishing' "ACEd"

Appearance: Honey pear colored, LOTS of floaties in the bottle, white sediment at the bottom. Murray McDavid tends to not filter its products. I wonder if the use of a pot still plays any role in the amount of sediment.

[Matusalem]

Here is another cash grab/scam that has bugged me about Murray McDavid. I sampled an independent distillers bottling of Bruichladdich (single malt) made by Murray McDavid at our club - What is scammish is that Murray McDavid owns Bruichladdich where Bruichladdich is released and sold as a single malt. They try to pass the Murray McDavid release as an independant distillers version - who are they trying to kid.Perhaps this is completely off the subject but Bruichladdich is a distiller's label. Murray McDavid is a bottler's lablel.

Bruichladdich sells it's line of single malts from large vattings. Murray McDavid sells a whole slew of distillers' product in what in the American whiskey market would be known as single barrel or small batch formats. There is some distinction there as thin as it might be and I hear what you are saying.

I guess I've been lucky, I got my Murray McDavid bottles when they were cheap - I'd say I'm at least 80% happy with the 15 or so I picked up. Was the MM Bruichladdich bottle you got, the 1986?

I also hear you on your feelings about the cash grab. I found the Murray McDavid rums to be more about those who follow *different* more so than perfected rum spirit from select regions, per say.

[angelsword]

Was the MM Bruichladdich bottle you got, the 1986?
The Bruichladdich I have is not MM. It is the Second Edition 20 yr "Flirtation". I don't see a date.

[angelsword]

Murray McDavid tends to not filter its products. I wonder if the use of a pot still plays any role in the amount of sediment.

I usually attribute this particular type of floaty in the bottle to continued biological action.

[Edward Hamilton]

I usually attribute this particular type of floaty in the bottle to continued biological action.

There are two types of particulate typically found in spirits bottles. Charcoal from the barrels and a cloudimess formed when fatty acids coalesce. The latter typically happens when the spirit is exposed to lower temperatures.

Like white bread, some distillers go to great lengths to make spirits bright and clear. Some products are chill-filtered to coalesce the fatty acids and remove any cloudiness in the bottle. In the high end single malt whiskey market, those spirits which are not chill-filtered, called un-chillfiltered, are much sought after by aficionados. I'm not sure how to un-chill anything but that's the industry term.

[Matusalem]

I'm not sure how to un-chill anything but that's the industry term.It relates to the fact that chill-filtering is as it sounds. They drop the temperature on the fluid, in doing so just like bacon that's cooled for a period, the fat shows on the surface. The surface material is then skimmed and removed from the product then the product is bottled, minus the added fat/oil.

Enthusiasts chase unfiltered product because just like with meat, that fat is full of FLAVOR. Secondly the common thought on not filtering a product is the minimum ABV should be 92pf which means the proof is often higher than standard market which higher proof again = more flavor = more enthusiasts in the chase.;)

Angel... the 1986 Bruichladdich question was suppsoed to be addressed to Don Piero, since he said he bought a bottle of Murray McDavid Bruichladdich - that's the one I have. My mistake if I quoted you.

Personal taste but I think the 1986 was a pretty decent dram. Assuming he has the same bottle, I Wasn't sure if DP's gripe was with what's in the bottle not living up to expectations or if he is perturbed simply because Murray McDavid's group ownership is the same as Bruichladdich distillery's?

[Edward Hamilton]

Unchilled is like unaged. But it would be easier to unchill something, if it was chilled in the first place, than it would to un-age an aged spirit.

[Matusalem]

To add to my above drivel, I should have stated that I think the distinction is that other whiskies (for example most American whiskeys) are charcoal filtered - Buffalo Trace chill filters it's whiskies. It has also become somewhat common place to see the terminology "Non-Chill Filtered" on certain bottling(s) of single malts.

[angelsword]

Unchilled is like unaged. But it would be easier to unchill something, if it was chilled in the first place, than it would to un-age an aged spirit.

Un-Aging spirits could be very marketable.

[Matusalem]

Un-Aging spirits could be very marketable.There's an industry term for that too. It's called re-distilling and does happen from time to time, I'm guessing when a potential horror is allowed to mature to a full blown tragedy.:D

[angelsword]

There's an industry term for that too. It's called re-distilling and does happen from time to time, I'm guessing when a potential horror is allowed to mature to a full blown tragedy.:D

Ahhh, but does that cause un-aging in the drinker too.

[Dood]

Ahhh, but does that cause un-aging in the drinker too.

That would not be un-cool.

[Matusalem]

Ahhh, but does that cause un-aging in the drinker too.Umm, I don't think so but speaking of un-filtered and un-cut whiskies, I have this one that I have witnessed the effects of makes people act younger - downright childish in some instances.:eek:

[angelsword]

There are two types of particulate typically found in spirits bottles. Charcoal from the barrels and a cloudiness formed when fatty acids coalesce. The latter typically happens when the spirit is exposed to lower temperatures.

Since I have noticed this even at warmer temperatures, I suspect that lactic acid bacteria may also be active in coalescing the fatty acids.

[Rum Runner]

Since I have noticed this even at warmer temperatures, I suspect that lactic acid bacteria may also be active in coalescing the fatty acids.

One is to presume the lactic acid bacteria is being picked up from infected barrels or aging facilities?

[Rum Runner]

Since I have noticed this even at warmer temperatures, I suspect that lactic acid bacteria may also be active in coalescing the fatty acids.

I am aware of Malo-Lactic fermentation occurring spontaneously or being induced in wine. I am not aware if it is a factor in spirits. It would though, account for the Banana (Amyl Acetate) aroma and flavor in certain rums.

[angelsword]

One is to presume the lactic acid bacteria is being picked up from infected barrels or aging facilities?

Lactic acid bacteria are an essential part of the process resulting in the richer aromas one wants in fine spirits. I find it interesting to see what may be a continuation of this process in this fine rum.

[Rum Runner]

Lactic acid bacteria are an essential part of the process resulting in the richer aromas one wants in fine spirits. I find it interesting to see what may be a continuation of this process in this fine rum.

Rather coy on your part there..

[Rum Runner]

Rather coy on your part there..

Of course you are allowed a wide berth...One presumes you are working on a new "version". Sorry if I seemed pointed

[angelsword]

Rather coy on your part there..

It is not so much being coy as I really do share much of my moment by moment mental processes here with the forum. The conclusions may be left to the observer.

But this pdf is interesting. http://www.mbaa.com/meeting/2004/workshops/WII_wanikawa.pdf

[Rum Runner]

It is not so much being coy as I really do share much of my moment by moment mental processes here with the forum. The conclusions may be left to the observer.

But this pdf is interesting. http://www.mbaa.com/meeting/2004/workshops/WII_wanikawa.pdf

I conclude that the research continues!

[Hank Koestner]

I brought this thread back to ask a few questions. On the Binny's site there are five M and M rums for sale at different age lengths and different cask finishes. Has any one tried any of these, and are they worth the average price of $65? I spoke before of shying away due to price and mixed reviews, but they sound so interesting.
And, for our resident scientists, how much does the different cask finishes make in the final product? Are these casks charred?
With Temptryst, the different types of wood used makes for a wonderful variation in taste.
These are the five:
CLDN 10 Yr Chenin Blanc Cask Finished
Caroni 11 Yr Madiera Cask Finished
Enmore-Versailles 14 Yr Old Viogner Cask Finished
Hampton 13 Yr Port Cask Finished
Port Morant Syrah Cask Finished

I realize that these exotic names are good marketing techniques. I know all of the wine and spirits that they mention in thier casks. But still, they make me curious.

[Lew Barrett]

i've been curious about these too, but from the descriptions of taste, it doesn't sound like any of these are my cuppa'. I think I'd rather a Goslings Family Reserve at the price; that's one I haven't tried that I am very curious about.

[angelsword]

These casks will strongly affect the final taste, probably not near as much as my use of totally different woods however. But there will the effect of type of oak, its roast, level of char, and of the wine itself that remains still in the wood.

I have only tasted the Port Morant. It may (or may not) be the finest Guyana that I have tasted. But it is certainly is superb. I will buy more of this series.

[angelsword]

i've been curious about these too, but from the descriptions of taste, it doesn't sound like any of these are my cuppa'. I think I'd rather a Goslings Family Reserve at the price; that's one I haven't tried that I am very curious about.

The Gosling is elegant and rich, but subtle. Classic! It is NOT a big flavour like others that are popular on this board. But for my palate, I rank it above any of the Zacapa/Zaya group.

[Edward Hamilton]

There's an industry term for that too. It's called re-distilling and does happen from time to time, I'm guessing when a potential horror is allowed to mature to a full blown tragedy.:D

Re-distilling is commonly done in the vodka industry after grain neutral spirits are infused with natural, or un-natural fruit. Another example of re-distilling is in the gin industry where botanicals are steeped in grain neutral spirits for one to several days and then re-distilled. Sometimes the botanicals are placed in a basket in the still during the re-distillation.

Re-distilling is much less common in the rum industry, though it is becoming more prevalent among small distillers. I'm not aware of any mature rums being re-distilled to remove the effects of wayward maturation. That would be un-aging.

[Bill]

Not to slice the onion too thin, but I think the notion of "unaging" is a bit hopeful, and really ought not to be confused with redistilling. Although redistilling can rid a spirit of perhaps a certain amount of undesired heads and tails components, eg fusel oils, these are not the products of aging.

Those products, which are generally affiliated especially with the additive and interactive effects of oaking may remain in the redistilled product. And redistilling will not replace the subtractive elements of oaking which are gone forever.

To me "unaging", like plastic surgery, is more hope than reality.

[rumdog007]

Just a plug for rums that I really like. The Murray McDavid line is more than a novelty. The new line, Renegade, is quite good, too(and, quite a bit more$$$). But, I did want to point out that there are many of the older line still hanging around on store shelve, sometimes at a discount. Get them, before they are gone, would be my advice. I would not put any of these rums in a must-have, world's-bestest, to-die-for category. But, they make a great top shelf, elite, "changeup" rum. I go to them for something a little different every now and then. glass.gif

[Lew Barrett]

I bought a bottle of the MM Nicaragua, 1995, purchased at Forrest's suggestion, it's my first and only MM bottling. It was about $44, if I recall. Should tonight be the night? Oh why not!

"

Like Ed, I probably ought refrain from fast judgement but here are my impressions.

My bottle is also "not chill filtered," and the label clearly intones: "Casking: bourbon and white wine.
My bottle is clear, with little or no sediment. The rum is golden orange in the class, and has none of Angel's floaties. If there's much by way of sediment in the bottle, lamp light is not revealing it.

By comparison, I have only had one glass of Sea Wynde, but my taste found it "smokey." I would say that in the Wynde (oh no, a Dillon reference) I found the peaty, smokiness off-putting. This rum follows suit, but is not quite so singular in character. Nonetheless, it is again a more whisky (or whiskey) like rum than I usually have a taste for. That's as far as my impressions go now. It is at first pass not something I would rush out to buy again.

I did obtain that bottle of Family Reserve I mentioned earlier in the thread. I suspect it won't disappoint me based on the good reviews I have read and the character of their other rums I have tried. So far, with just one glass of MM under my belt, the character of this particular Murray McDavid's bottle would not entice me to try the Renegade offerings if they are of like nature. Perhaps my opinion will change when I try it again. .

[forrest]

Well i am sorry about the MM Lew.

i love them, but to me it is about their uniqueness, coupled with amazing quality...

Admittedly, they are out of the ordinary.. hell a couple of them are downright strange (but wonderful...).

A customer called and we were talking about them the other day and they asked me what i thought, and what i said was "The MM's are something you buy with a few buddies so you can share an experience.."

i remember at the Hi Time Rum Tasting trying them with Rumdog 007 and feeling the rush of shared experience-- that quizzical look absolutely free of dissatisfaction "where are these flavors from, WHAT ARE these flavors, how did they do that??" Same as when i tried them with Trayce, anywho....

[rumdog007]

Lew, I totally get ya on all points. I must admit that I have fallen under the spell of peaty Scotch whisky, lately. Due to some advice from one MOR'er named forrest, I have begun to delve into XO Cognac, too. One of the Murray McDavid's poses as a great XO, BTW. These forrays into different spirits have led me to acceptance of these flavors in my rums. I know, I know, rum-heresy! But, this is all said with the biggest smile on my face! :D:D:D DON'T pour that bottle down the drain. Give it another try. If that does not work, I would be glad to swap you for a bottle of your choice.

cheers.gif

[Matusalem]

i love them, but to me it is about their uniqueness, coupled with amazing quality...And this really is the only reason I would invest in these. There is no expectation any of the MM will replace my regular, traditional rum circulation.

Purchasing these with the expectation of them possibly being a replacement / stand-in might be setting oneself up for disappointment. The individual that likes simple customary rum profiles also might find some of the MM releases a little bit bizarre.

[rumdog007]

Matusalem, as much as I like all of the MM line, I agree with you completely. Perhaps, that is why I keep finding them on shelves! At my home, only a few people, which tasted them this Christmas, embraced them. But, those of us which found something to like, liked them A LOT. love1.gif I guess that this means there will be plenty more for me (and forrest). party1.gif

[Matusalem]

At my home, only a few people, which tasted them this Christmas, embraced them. But, those of us which found something to like, liked them A LOT.Based on generalized expectation, I think it is safe to say they are probably only for "a few people" unless different is the theme or welcome to begin with.

However, understanding the private bottler's scheme in the single malt spectrum goes a long way too.

I do notice the same or similar phenomenon with malts. I've often come across people at tastings who describe themselves as having to get a bottle of Brora or Port Ellen (for example) cuz my friends say I'm missing that... and no collection is complete without at least 1 bottle. But then they are standing there at a table looking at a private bottle... with the bottler standing right in front unabashedly saying "I seek out unusual casks that offer other than what the distillery commonly does / did".

That continuously espoused disclaimer seems to fly right over many a heads.

[bluewave6]

I love the Trinidad MM rum. Heading out tomorrow to pick up another bottle to replace my near depleted one in my cabinet.

[Hank Koestner]

I have been curious about these for a long time, and my curiosity still peaks.
I do enjoy a rum with a whiskey character, but as has been mentioned, because of the uniqueness. I have said in other posts that there are some agricoles that have a whiskey or cognac similarity, which I enjoy quite a bit. It may be a good thing that I am not purchasing anything new right now, as I have to deplete my present supply first. It is hard though, as these tempt me as do the new line of Plantation rums.drooling.gif

[RobertBurr]

Prichard's is a whiskey-like rum that has piqued the curiosity of many.

[rumdog007]

"...having to get a bottle of Brora or Port Ellen ..."


Matusalem, nice obersevation. And, the Brora is over $400.00 a bottle around here. A real story about that distillery, too! cheers.gif

[Lew Barrett]

Some of my favorite MORers are all over this thread. Enjoyable to read.

First of all Forrest, you can do no wrong, so don't worry. I'll return to my bottle another time, as I have learned that the first taste of any rum may not be the defining one. My growing body of experience informs me that my taste for a given rum develops with time and experience tasting it and others.

So that's what I have to say here; Mateusalem probably expresses my view of this quite well.


Rumdog, never worry that I'd pour good rum down a drain just because it wasn't to my taste at one point in time. If nothing else, remember that I'm a collector!

[rumdog46]

Hey Robert,
I am waiting on a bottle of Prichards’ Fine Rum along with about 10 others I have ordered from various online resources. I am looking forward to cracking it open next weekend and sampling a few. I will keep you posted on what I think after a good sample.