Tonight, I'm sipping Vizcaya VXOP

[stockdoct]

Anyone ever try this rum?

Its from Dominican Republic, but marketed as "Cuban Formula Rum" and presented in a bottle that looks more suitable for an elegant perfume.

I'm finding it pretty tasty. What were your thoughts?

[Arctic Wolf]

Hi Stocdoct

Why don't you write out your tasting notes? I think you might enjoy it. I know I would enjoy reading it.

[forrest]

i think it is wonderful...

large dark sugar tones, that linger with complex spice...Allspice, nutmeg and clove!!!

Seems a bit 'structured' (perhaps tweeked--) for an Oliver and Oliver offering, but still very nice...

** if you don't like big, exaggerated spice don't try it...Clove is vibratly present and deeply enjoyable-- if you like that sort of thing.

[rumdog007]

It's funny that they bill it as a Cuban style rum. It is anything but a Cuban style rum. Yes, the cloves!

In honor of your venture into the world of Vizcaya, I mixed a Rum Manhattan with Vizcaya, Carpano Antica Formula Vermouth, and Fee's Orange Bitters.

gzzg

[Edward Hamilton]

Next to a rum Old Fashioned, a rum Manhattan is one of my favorites.

[stockdoct]

Hi Stocdoct

Why don't you write out your tasting notes? I think you might enjoy it. I know I would enjoy reading it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK Here goes .....

I'm finding my best rums these days at grocery stores. Liquor stores sadly are carrying only the Bacardi products, syrupy inexpensive coconut rums and lowest-end jug rums that cost less than a six-pack of coca-cola. Maybe its the recession. Anyway, full-service grocery stores like Rockford Illinois' Woodman's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodman's_Food_Market are where I'm finding Guatamalan Zaya, Goslings, 2-year aged Cruzan, and Vizcaya. I don't understand the connection, but I'm finding if the store doesn't sell breakfast cereal, they don't sell good rum either.

Anyway, I took the rum, and my wife and a picnic lunch, to Rock Cut State Park ("NO LIQUOR ALLOWED", the entryway post warned), along with some breadsticks, some cheese, and some raspberries so huge I'd swear they were grown by a mad scientist next to a nuclear power reactor.

The initial inspection of a rum's bottle is often the first step in evoking positive or negative pre-conceptions about a rum's quality. I was able to avoid this visual tainting of impression, since, remembering the stern "no liquor" warning, my Viscaya was wrapped tightly in a nondescript paper bag. The first pour was into the finest glassware Woodman's sells --- a clear plastic, 8 oz, tumbler probably made for Fraternity beer parties. The color was a beautiful amber --- perhaps I could convince the police office it was cream soda if he confronted me.

If you spend much time in forests or state parks, you'll recognize the natural aroma permeating the environment --- cedar and pine trees, fuel from the outboard motors of the boaters nearby, the wafting scent of the outhouse a dozen steps from the picnic table. I admit there was a lot going on in my nose that the Viscaya probably had nothing to do with. But despite the competing smells, this rum was enjoyable. Not a huge nose as some, so to get the fullest experience I had to stick my face darn near entirely into my plastic cup. It reminded me of the smell of Zaya. Sweet, spicy, a hint (but not too much) of whiskey. Goes good with atomic raspberries and cheese.

Taking my face out of the cup and opening my eyes, I was startled to see a bunch of people approaching me. Park Police????? Nope, just a black man and woman out for a hike through the woods. Really, pretty amazing, they actually broke the stereotype I had held for decades. To my memory, I had never seen black people hike in the woods. Never. Wow. But perhaps my politically incorrect stereotype was held intact, when in only 5 minutes I watched them return to their car.

Back to the rum. I didn't think the Oak leaf that had fallen into my cup would benefit the rum's flavor, so I pulled it out with my finger. My first taste of the rum was the necessary licking the wetness off my finger. Does anyone else taste rum like this? I'd recommend it. Just stick your finger into the rum, suck your finger, and make sure you make the loud, satisfying "pop" when your finger is released. My wife, after enjoying the smell of the rum immensely (she doesn't sip rum much at all but sniffs everytime), also dipped her finger into my plastic cup and dabbed the rum like perfume on the sides of her neck. "Wanna taste?" she winked at me.

Of course I did. So my second taste of Viscaya was probably not fair --- I mean, it was on her neck, and her giggling probably distracted me. So I then took a real drink, a sip, from my cup. Spicy, like what goes up into my nose when I visit Milwaukee's "Spice House" and first open the door to be hit with the coalesced aromas of cinnamon, thyme, nutmeg, pepper, and cloves. Viscaya tastes like the Spice House smells. Again, small hint of whiskey as the rum drips down my throat and a little burn that I'm sure will be quelled by an ice cube or a dash of water when I get home.

"Lets get out of here" my wife says as a park ranger pulls his vehicle into the parking lot. So my fourth (and last) taste of Viscaya was about 2 ounces of rum pouring like a tidal wave down my throat all at once. Yowza!! I won't do that again. Burned like the mother. Definitely not the rum to do shots with. But followed with a chunk of Muenster the burn subsided, the spices returned, and we drove happily to the nearby tennis courts where my 15 year old daughter was playing her first meet.

Maybe the rum will be different with a more "traditional" tasting environment, but I'm very happy with my first Viscaya experience and will definitely look forward to sipping it again.

[Arctic Wolf]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My wife, after enjoying the smell of the rum immensely (she doesn't sip rum much at all but sniffs everytime), also dipped her finger into my plastic cup and dabbed the rum like perfume on the sides of her neck. "Wanna taste?" she winked at me.

Of course I did. So my second taste of Viscaya was probably not fair --- I mean, it was on her neck, and her giggling probably distracted me. So I then took a real drink, a sip, from my cup. Spicy, like what goes up into my nose when I visit Milwaukee's "Spice House" and first open the door to be hit with the coalesced aromas of cinnamon, thyme, nutmeg, pepper, and cloves. Viscaya tastes like the Spice House smells. Again, small hint of whiskey as the rum drips down my throat and a little burn that I'm sure will be quelled by an ice cube or a dash of water when I get home.

"Lets get out of here" my wife says ......


When your wife said "Lets get out of Here...." I thought you were in for another treat. love1.gif


Nice Post! I knew I would love it.

[rumdog007]

stockdoct, this is certainly the most colorful (pun, sorta intended...) review to grace this forum! Any experience which helps to debunk an untruth is OK in my book. But unfortunately, you confirmed my stereotype about white people drinking alcoholic beverages from brown paper bags at public parks. JTR.gif

I'm glad that you liked the rum. Cuban style, what's your take?

The great thing about Vizcaya is that imakes a good winter/holiday drink. I like it as a chaser after eggnog, too.

[Arctic Wolf]

stockdoct, this is certainly the most colorful (pun, sorta intended...) But unfortunately, you confirmed my stereotype about white people drinking alcoholic beverages from brown paper bags at public parks. JTR.gif


LOL

Rumdog I still have not stopped laughing! That quote is priceless!

[Joe Riley]

I sell the Vizcaya VXOP. It's lovely stuff. I often recommend it for cigar smokers who are looking for a rum to enjoy with those.

[Edoc]

My local liquor store has about 5 or 6 bottles of Vizcaya VXOP on the shelf. The rum in one of the bottles is light brown in color-- like the color of maple syrup. All of the other bottles contain rum which is dark brown-- closer to coffee in color. Other than the color of the rum, the bottles are labeled the same. Does anyone know if there is a reason why one of the bottles would be so light compared to the others?

[z-man]

Vizcaya has been one of our favorite sipping rums for some time.
Attractive bottle, excellent rum

[RT]

Have gone through several bottles of Vizcaya. Love it. Its hard to find. Vizcaya is a very good substitute for Bacardi's Reserva Limitada, which is even harder to get (for me, anyway).

[MrB]

Hi does anyone know of any supplier who exports to the UK?
I'm desperate to try it and cannot for the life of me find anyway to get hold of it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[RonJames]

You might try a shop in the US that ships over seas, try drinkupny.com, hi-times, or shoppersvineyard.com

[SeldomSeen]

Vizcaya is my current favorite sipping rum,... sans the brown paper bag. Rich, smooth and complex with a long finish. Seems sacrilegious to use as a mixer, although Rumdogs suggested "Rum Manhattan" sounds intriguing. But I love doing comparison tastings,..... of everything,... wine, beer, scotch, rum. You name it. I recently compared it with all the rums I had left in stock with several friends and it was the hands down favorite. It was not really a fair tasting though, as the other rums were in the $25 price range. What was useful in the comparison though was discovering that the runner-up, Zaya,... (which we dubbed as "Poor Man's Vizcaya"), is very similar in flavor profile. It lacks Vizcaya's complexity, has a more pronounced vanilla characteristic and is shorter on the finish. But it's still a good alternative to Vizcaya when the coffers are low. For a fairer comparison though, I'm anxiously waiting for a shipment of other sipping rums in Vizcaya's price range to compare to. I'm sure there will be a few "new friends" to join Vizcaya.

[Sylbaris]

Dear SeldomSeen: I am the new brand ambassador for Vizcaya in CT. I know Ric Guiliano, the passionate founder and president of this wonderful agricole exlixir. Yes I said, agricole because it is distilled from sugar cane juice not molasses, which I believe contributes to its wonderful color, bouquet and richness. It has a buttery complexity yet is light and soft enough to be very accessible to all palates even non-traditional rum drinkers. Regarding the question to mix or not? Do you mix drinks with cognac? If not, try it, because neat or mixed, the best spirits will stand up to any mixologist's imagination even rumcake. Though I will concur with other aficionados, that Vizcaya mixes best with a good smoke! Please enjoy and buy more!

[SeldomSeen]

Hmmm. Says "Rum", not Rhum on my bottle. A lot of Rums are distilled from sugar cane and not molasses. But according to Mr. Hamilton, this does not necessarily make them an Agricole. Maybe he could clear this one up on Vizcaya,..... and other sugar cane rums. Regardless, IMHO it is a great Rum. While I don't mix much anyway, I'm sure it makes an exceptionally fine mixed drink. But for me, there are just too many subtle nuances that would be lost in the melee,... and I don't want to miss a single one. I savor every last drop of this beauty.

[Edward Hamilton]

In regards to rhum agricole, or the bastard moniker rum agricole, which is mix of languages, I would say that unless a sugar cane spirit is made in the French islands and called rhum agricole on that island it isn't rhum agricole. The French have trademarked the name and that name is respected in the EU and other parts of the world but in the US. The words 'rum or rhum agricole' are thrown about like the word 'solera' which has become the most overused marketing term in the rum industry in the last five years.

For starters, rhum agricole is made from fresh sugar cane juice and distilled to not more than 75% alcohol. In Martinique, the only island with an AOC marque for their rhum agricole, that spirit must be made from the twelve varieties of sugar cane that are sanctioned for rhum production.

I would refer visitors to this site to the Oliver & Oliver (http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/../producerdetails.php?t=2645) section of this site and the notes taken by forum member pkazimir (http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/member.php?u=4279) who visited there earlier this year. According to Oliver & Oliver, who make several rums which, by the way, have placed very high in the Ministry of Rum Tasting Competition, they source their rum from Trinidad and Panama.

Having spent many months in the DR researching rum and other things, I have yet to find anyone, other than those operating illicit stills, making any alcohol from fresh sugar cane juice. In my research into the Cuban rum traditions I have yet to find any Cuban company that makes rum from sugar cane juice.

[SeldomSeen]

Thanks for clearing this up for me Mr. Hamilton. I hope others will also benefit from this explanation.

[pkazimir]

hey!

Thanks for the mention Ed.

Vizcaya is made in Dominican Republic in Oliver & Oliver to be concrete. They blend rums using a Cuban formula thats why you can find a label "cuban formula" on the bottle. Even though the blending is done by Oliver & Oliver, the creator, Mr. Riccardo Giuliano is coming down to test the quality by himself. I met him there while he was testing the new Vizcaya Blanco which should be on the market soon.

Regarding the agricore ... i dont know about that. I know that Oliver & Oliver takes the distillate mostly from Panama. From what they distill it i dont know..but they do a good job. I will research that soon.

Edoc: The rum in one of the bottles is light brown in color-- like the color of maple syrup. All of the other bottles contain rum which is dark brown-- closer to coffee in color.

that sounds interesting. Dont really know why that is. You should open the bottles and test if also the flavour is different :)

Vizcaya makes a great sipping rum. I usally drink it in the evening while reading a good book.

[Matusalem]

Great info and exchange, guys.
Vizcaya is made in Dominican Republic in Oliver & Oliver to be concrete.

I know that Oliver & Oliver takes the distillate mostly from Panama.It seems slightly more accurate to describe Vizcaya as "Bottled in the Dominican Republic"? If the distillate is "mostly from Panama", wouldn't it be more likely that the spirit is actually made in Panama or somewhere other than the Dominican Republic?

Which you helped us arrive at one of the major issues in gathering accurate information / and the provision of correct terminology. There is purposeful blurring and confusing of blenders with makers or distillers. Credit should be (ENTHUSIASTICALLY) given to blenders of great finished product.

However, I think it's wrong for blenders to take credit for more than their blending art - I.E. claim they are the original distillers or authorities on ingredients etc. when they (usually) weren't involved or there to supervise & verify the integrity of ingredients, origins / provenance etc. etc. at the spirit's inception.

I make great Piña Coladas. But I don't believe that qualifies me as a legendary rum distiller or pineapple farmer. Jus' sayin'.

[pkazimir]

It seems slightly more accurate to describe Vizcaya as "Bottled in the Dominican Republic"? If the distillate is "mostly from Panama", wouldn't it be more likely that the spirit is actually made in Panama or somewhere other than the Dominican Republic?

Yes, the sugar cane is distilled in Panama or Trinidad. This not aged distillate is then shipped to Dominican republic where it is aged, blended and then bottled. It is very important to find a good distillate to work with but i strongly believe that it is also very important to know how to age and blend the spirit. Therefor the label "Aged, blended and bottled in Dominican Republic" would be more accurate.

There is purposeful blurring and confusing of blenders with makers or distillers.

Yes, the average consumer doesn't know about the difference. (did you know that ABSOLUT VODKA buys destillate too? - i was surprised when i found out)

However, I think it's wrong for blenders to take credit for more than their blending art - I.E. claim they are the original distillers or authorities on ingredients etc. when they (usually) weren't involved or there to supervise & verify the integrity of ingredients, origins / provenance etc. etc. at the spirit's inception.

This is a good point. The distillers should take credit for their distillates and the blenders should take credit for their blending art, i agree. But i think it is more than just blending art. I think it is the art of knowing the resources you work with and that you understand rum. The thing is they (O&O) had problems to find a reliable source for a quality distillate. They might not be involved in the whole process of the distillation, but when buying the distilled cane they have certain criteria of quality. Also when I first entered the facility of O&O they told me right away they buy the distillate.

What i want to say is..when you are such a good pina colada maker first of all i want to taste your pina colada :) secondly, i think you will choose the right ingredients (pineapple, coconut milk, white rum) before you start with the preparation of your signature pina colada.

[Matusalem]

I guess what I meant to establish is: The Blender is the maker of the blend. And as said, should be recognized enthusiastically for their results. The art is all of those things you mentioned IMHO, so recognizing their blending & finished product, art, is where the credit belongs. I'm not knocking O&O - the finished product is doing well.

Let me ask your thoughts in all fairness. Do you think the process as you described:Yes, the sugar cane is distilled in Panama or Trinidad. This not aged distillate is then shipped to Dominican republic where it is aged, blended and then bottled....Should accurately be described as "Cuban Formula"?

tp;

[Edward Hamilton]

In addition to the distillation and blending processes, another integral part of the process is the bottling, labeling and marketing of the product. Fifteen years ago I wrote, if the label doesn't tell you where the product was distilled they probably don't want you to know. Who is 'they' you ask? The people responsible for marketing the product.

In the 1980s I was living on a sailboat in the Bahamas and Matusalem 15 year old was selling for just over $4 a bottle. I asked a few locals how the company could sell a 15 year old bottle of rum for just over $4 and I was told, 'we know it isn't fifteen years old, but for $4 a bottle it's pretty good.'

In regards to the Cuban formula, Oliver & Oliver are of Cuban heritage and the words Cuban on rum bottles sell. If you don't believe me, a few years ago, when Skyy imported the Matusalem brand, there were 15 references to Cuba on the bottle and label.

In 2000, very few people in the US had even heard of rhum agricole much less tasted it, and most people didn't know that the French even made rum. Today there are more brands claiming to be rhum agricole than there are distillers on all of the French islands combined.

[Matusalem]

If you don't believe me, a few years ago, when Skyy imported the Matusalem brand, there were 15 references to Cuba on the bottle and label.This issue was the source of some personal frustration as well, I believe it was late 2002 or there about the Skyy import was introduced? Prior to then, (and for a period directly after til the well ran dry), I had the shared pleasure of many pours of the Matasulem 15 year old and 7 from the island before the brand was discontinued.

What I found not well known by most enthusiasts, there was a stint before Skyy Spirits became involved, whereas the 15 year old (Non Cuban) Matusalem was bottled in Lake Alfred, Florida. By actual taste comparison, that bottling was what I'd tip my hat to as being "Cuban Style" or "Cuban Formula" and tasting quite a bit like Cuban Matusalem. The "Product of Dominican Republican" bottle was of no useful comparison to either the Cuban or Floridian bottle.

Most of my friends like Vizcaya but continuously remind me they wouldn't call it Cuban style, formula or typical of Cuban rum they are familiar with.

[Edward Hamilton]

What I found not well known by most enthusiasts, there was a stint before Skyy Spirits became involved, whereas the 15 year old (Non Cuban) Matusalem was bottled in Lake Alfred, Florida.
To my knowledge Matusalem has claimed since about 2000 to be a # Solera Blender. I've never been able to discover any of the particulars of that blend that I can publish. A lot of people see the number as an age statement, which Skyy denied. Now the brand is imported by Proximo.

[Edward Hamilton]

What I found not well known by most enthusiasts, there was a stint before Skyy Spirits became involved, whereas the 15 year old (Non Cuban) Matusalem was bottled in Lake Alfred, Florida.
To my knowledge Matusalem has claimed since about 2000 to be a # Solera Blender. I've never been able to discover any of the particulars of that blend that I can publish. A lot of people see the number as an age statement, which Skyy denied. Now the brand is imported by Proximo.

In about 2001 I was in a liquor store in Massachusetts where a salesperson told me that there was a special agreement so Matusalem, made in Cuba as witnessed by the word Cuba all over the label, could be imported to the US.

[Matusalem]

To my knowledge Matusalem has claimed since about 2000 to be a # Solera Blender. I've never been able to discover any of the particulars of that blend that I can publish. A lot of people see the number as an age statement, which Skyy denied. Now the brand is imported by Proximo.I don't know but believe you are correct (Solera process claimed at that time). I was more so quoting the distinction the rum was sold as (15 years old).

Is it your belief the Lake Alfred bottles were associated with Skyy too? I thought not but don't remember and wasn't aware of pending changes at the time. I would have definitely picked up some back-up bottles had I known better.

In about 2001 I was in a liquor store in Massachusetts where a salesperson told me that there was a special agreement so Matusalem, made in Cuba as witnessed by the word Cuba all over the label, could be imported to the US.
The L.A.F. bottle was very much like the Cuban Matusalem I've tasted. As you stated, around 2001, I was aware the Cuban name was under litigation, but my impression was if anything, the Cuban brand name would be altered or discontinued. I didn't realize the US bottled product was gonna change too.

[pkazimir]

there are Cubans working in Oliver & Oliver and they use their way of creating rums. However, with Vizcaya i think is more about marketing.

[Sylbaris]

Ed: As usual thanks for putting me on the road to discovery! I really should have known better...Poor Ric, maybe he thinks if he spins the story hard enough it will be what he wants it to be, instead of just letting a great rum do the talking.

[Matusalem]

there are Cubans working in Oliver & Oliver and they use their way of creating rums. However, with Vizcaya i think is more about marketing.This is my impression as well. I’m not confident we can find an honest person that can conclude the process = Cuban Formula. What’s missing is one word that could be inserted between Cuban & Formula to sum things up accurately.

Cuban BUSINESSMEN Formula. :)

...Poor Ric, maybe he thinks if he spins the story hard enough it will be what he wants it to be, instead of just letting a great rum do the talking.I wouldn’t go so far as be critical of Ric from a salesman point of view. In the realm of accuracy or fact, like many upon many of the brand’s competitors, the “alleged” stories are folklore that I tend to disregard most of.

Vizcaya & Matusalem are not alone - the business itself dictates a certain amount of deception. I certainly am aware that no company will divulge all, most or in some cases, any of its *secrets*. Where I draw a line is when the concept of secret is purposely exploited to imply falsehoods or deceive.

Based on actual response / reaction, if you care to pass it on, I think Ric’s product would do fine if it was simply described as supervised & blended by former Cuban residents or something to that effect – as opposed to implying more than the persons involved in the selection & bottling are Cuban.

The "formula" appears to be based on where the buyers/bottlers were allegedly born or resided at some point.

A reason I’d refrain from knocking Ric and Co. is as far as getting folks to try the product initially, I think MAYBE the Cuban mention might have influenced / intrigued some of my own friends. Beyond that though (after tasting), nobody I know bought additional bottles on the basis of supplementing or enhancing their Cuban or Cuban “styled” rum stocks.

A few friends seemed disappointed in the fact that Vizcaya is not that much like Cuban rum they are accustomed to – the rest indicated they’ll entertain subsequent bottles but those purchases are based simply on the merits of the rum. The alleged origins and that mystique aren’t really as much of a selling point to repeat buyers / customer bases IMHO.