Flor de Cana 18: the barrels leave their mark

[Milicent]

I have been a fan of FDC 18 for some time, but it was only a few months ago that I began tasting hints of bourbon. Since that realization, I cannot drink this rum without tasting bourbon front and center. I still like the rum, but it has since become a bourbon-rum for me. Anytime I introduce someone to rum, I will always bring this one out first if they are bourbon drinkers.

It shouldn't be surprising. After all, 18 years is a long time spent in a barrel previously used to age bourbon. One would expect a certain amount of crossover.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with FDC 18 or another rum?

[Edward Hamilton]

It isn't unusual for rum to take on flavors that we associate with bourbon or whisky. The question I end up asking is does this rum taste like bourbon or does this bourbon taste like rum. The taste of smoky oak, vanilla and wood are tastes found in almost all aged spirits whether it's rum, whisky or cognac.

The flavors found in oak aged spirits are more prominent in American whisky or bourbon since these spirits are aged in new barrels. As the barrels age they give up these flavors so a rum aged 18 years in a used barrel will have much less of these flavors than a bourbon aged the same 18 years in a new barrel.

[Rum Runner]

Bourbon is aged in heavily charred barrels as opposed to Cognac, which is generally aged in un-charred barrels.

Ed's point is well taken that newer barrels have more influence on the end taste than older Barrels, presuming that the barrels have not been scraped clean of charr..or charred to a heavier level when they arrive at the next destination.

As an example, Ron Barcelo Imperial shows a lot of new Bourbon barrel up front in the aroma and taste, whereas their previous Emperador had a more old barrel taste profile.

Just my take..And to paraphrase RumDude..

Your mileage may vary...Check your local listings..Prices subject to change without notice..Consult your Doctor before taking Rumiagra.

[Hank Koestner]

From time to time I mention in my tasting notes that a rum has a whiskey or bourbon consistency or note in the taste. My last notes on the Flor 18 said
it could be compared to an aged whiskey. I tasted a little more tonight and found that still to be true. One thing I must mention, is that I find the nose to really carry a hint of bourbon, almost more so that the taste.

[Edward Hamilton]

I like the Flor de Cana 18 year old but their 12 year old is more inviting to my palate for a sipping rum that I'm going to enjoy over the course of an evening with a cigar. But for the last glass of the night the Flor de Cana 18 is high on the list.

[Matusalem]

What I taste in the La Flor line that isn't uncommon in many bourbons is charcoal. Not sure but would bet like many American whiskies, on top of the charred barrel maturation, La Flor might be using charcoal to filter their spirit somewhere in the process prior to bottling.

[RobertBurr]

From our recent tasting of Gifted Rums of Nicaragua, about 20 percent of our participants preferred the FDC 12 ($30), another 15 percent liked the Centenario 21 Limited Edition 15 year old ($65) best, while most others chose the Centenario 18 ($39) as their favorite.

Interestingly, many found the FDC 7 Grand Reserve ($20) and the FDC 5 Black Label ($16) on ice to be surprisingly mature and a great value.

The FDC 4 Extra Dry is considered quite mature and quite dry, excellent for mixing a mojito.

[Milicent]

FDC 7 and Santa Teresa Gran Reserva on ice are standards when I am looking for a cold drink. These two are great examples of affordable rums that exceed (at least my) expectations.

[mammel]

It isn't unusual for rum to take on flavors that we associate with bourbon or whisky. The question I end up asking is does this rum taste like bourbon or does this bourbon taste like rum. The taste of smoky oak, vanilla and wood are tastes found in almost all aged spirits whether it's rum, whisky or cognac.



Along a similar train of thought....When i first opened my Mount Gay XO, I mixed a drink for my wife (with coke) and she didnt believe me that it was even rum. She had thought it was Rye (Crown Royal specifically). I am not a huge Rye drinker either, but it does have a similar taste (at least to me). Maybe my palate is not as refined as it needs to be, who knows.

Based on what I have heard other say about MG XO, it seems to be at one extreme of the taste profile spectrum (the dry and not sweet side). Perhaps this is not typically where rum normally goes with their flavours, but I still like the XO nonetheless. I still have not gotten to the point where I can start "sipping" yet though...I will start when I have something sufficiently sweet to begin with.

Any further thoughts on this comparison with rye?

[Jack]

I find Crown Royal quite different to most american rye whiskies, (sweeter and less complex), however as the raw ingredient is so different, I think that any similarities are probably due to the oak, which can add dryness as well as sweetness to the end result depending on how the spirit is matured.
Although I haven't tasted Mount Gay XO for a while, I generally find Mount Gay Eclipse to be quite sweet and fruity (they actually add fruit to the spirit during the aging process).
So I think any similarities are due to length of age.

[Arctic Wolf]

I find Crown Royal quite different to most american rye whiskies, (sweeter and less complex),

Crown Royal is a Blended Canadian Whisky. While some is bottled in the USA all of the whisky is distilled and aged in Canada as per Canadian Law.

As for it being less complex than American Rye whiskies, I beg to differ. Just let the glass sit a moment or two and you will find that Canadian whiskies are the most complex, balanced, and satisfying whiskies in the world.

(Of course being a Canadian I would have to feel that way.)glass.gif

[rumdog007]

Crown Royal (the base product) is an easy, and consistant, pour. I find it to be chock full of taste. But, the Reserve, which my cousin sent me is one of my favorite whiskys. IMO, it's a very complex product. I am hankering to get my hands on the XR for, at least, one dram!

Ok, ok! I am half Canadian. glass.gif

[Matusalem]

I find Crown Royal quite different to most american rye whiskies, (sweeter and less complex), however as the raw ingredient is so different, I think that any similarities are probably due to the oak, which can add dryness as well as sweetness to the end result depending on how the spirit is matured.
Although I haven't tasted Mount Gay XO for a while, I generally find Mount Gay Eclipse to be quite sweet and fruity (they actually add fruit to the spirit during the aging process).
So I think any similarities are due to length of age.Not the expert on the subject but my understanding is Crown (at least use to) have a significant neutral grain component. There also was quite the stir & rumor that through acquisitions, Diageo had a large holding of Stitzel-Weller Pappy Van Winkle (wheat formula bourbon) barrels that were allegedly being used as a small part of Crown's blend. All that's to say - I'm hardly surprised it doesn't taste like most "American Rye".

[Arctic Wolf]

Well Rumdog when you make it to Edmonton, I'll let you have one dram.....

Of Course I would need one dram of something in return....

glass.gif


P.S. The Cask 16 is even better

[Michael]

Mat, do your observations about Crown Royal apply to the Reserve as well as the base blend? I have to agree with rumdog that the Special Reserve (renamed Reserve) is a fine, complex and tasty whisky. glass.gif

[Patapouf]

Just to clarify, Crown Royal cannot be considered a Rye since its not made solely from that grain. I don't know if this was mentioned or not.

I remember comparing Crown to a cuban rum (can't remember the brand) with friends. They both had the exact same consistency and colour. Doing a blind test, we could easily tell how sweet the rum was compared to the sour notes of the whiskey.

Sorry for jacking the thread!

[Arctic Wolf]

Just to clarify, Crown Royal cannot be considered a Rye since its not made solely from that grain. I don't know if this was mentioned or not.

Sorry for jacking the thread!

Actually, although most Canadian distillers are abandoning the practice, it is still proper as far as I understand Canadian liquor law to call any blended Canadian Whisky "rye". The term refers to the overall flavour profile of the Canadian whiskies in general which is .. well ryelike. Although this terminology is falling out of favour, you can still find whiskies like Wiser's Special Blend Rye Whisky on the shelf in most stores in Canada. Hiram Walker Special Old Rye Whiskey is another example. These whiskies use corn primarily in their mash bill.

In the US such labelling is illegal, unless the product contains at least 51 % rye in the mash bill, but this rule as far as I know has never been formally adopted for Canadian Whisky. In most parts of the world Canadian Whisky is still referred to as rye whisky. But this is slowly changing.

Now whose rules make more sense is hard to say. I tried a sample of Highwest Whiskey 21 yr old Rye last week and immediately fired off a email to David Perkins the proprietor of the distillery because in my opinion his rye tasted like bourbon, not rye. Although he may not have agreed with me as to the distastefulness of a rye tasting like bourbon, he nonetheless was correct in calling his whisky a rye whisky because the rye content was 53%. I tend to like the old style Canadian way of doing things where if it smells like rye, and tastes like rye we called it rye.

Of course I am the one who should apologize as I believe it was I who originally jacked the thread.

[Arctic Wolf]

And now to get the thread back on track:

I have noticed the bourbon influence on a lot of spirits. The best (or worst) example of this in Rum that I have noticed has to be the Cockspur 12Yr Old. My friend brought a bottle over to one of my bi-weekly tastings, and all of us noticed the bourbon front and center. In my opinion, and all of my guests, the rum was ruined by the bourbon. Its just my opinion but Rum should first and foremost be rum, not something else. I believe this about all spirits. Unfortunately I am fighting a losing battle. I noticed in Jim Murray's latest whisky bible that he gave rave a review to a Scottish blend called "The last Drop". After reading the review I came to the inevitable conclusion that this Scotch's main claim to fame was that it had fooled most of his guests at a gathering into believing that it was not scotch but instead a bourbon.

Back to the Cockspur 12 Yr old. My Friend who bought the bottle brought it to my gathering this past Sunday and begged me to put it into my Oak Cask and try to turn it into a rum he could enjoy. After much deliberation I have decide to Blend it with Lamb's 151 proof, and then put it in oak aced with Apricot Brandy. I'll let everyone know in about twelve weeks how that worked out.

[rumdog007]

Artic Wolf, you are the mad scientist. But, who am I to argue. You got Forrest and me doing our own aging/finishing/...er...tainting our own rums. Actually, I love the results. But, of course, that could be a little of the Frankenstein in me which has a heart for my own creation. Either way, it's been wonderfully Faustian. May all of your pigs' ears turn to gold!glass.gif

BTW, I had the bourbon/rum double-take with the Prichards Rum. However, I ended up liking it after many, many drams.

[Patapouf]

Actually, although most Canadian distillers are abandoning the practice, it is still proper as far as I understand Canadian liquor law to call any blended Canadian Whisky "rye". The term refers to the overall flavour profile of the Canadian whiskies in general which is .. well ryelike. Although this terminology is falling out of favour, you can still find whiskies like Wiser's Special Blend Rye Whisky on the shelf in most stores in Canada. Hiram Walker Special Old Rye Whiskey is another example. These whiskies use corn primarily in their mash bill.


Hmm... So as long as you would have 'blend' inserted in the label you could name your whiskey a Rye? But, if I'm not mistaking, Alberta Premium would have every right to call themselves a Rye (pure and simple) since they make their's with 100% rye grain?

[Arctic Wolf]

Hi Patapouf,

Any Canadian whisky may legally be labeled as "Rye Whisky" in Canada regardless, of the rye content. As stated earlier the name refers to the unique rye flavour of Canadian whisky, not the rye content. In the US some of these whiskies must be relabeled without the 'rye' moniker if they do not contain 51% overall rye mash in the overall composition of the blend. A tricky situation leading most Canadian distillers to drop the 'rye' moniker altogether.

Because US labeling law is different from ours I believe (and may be corrected here), that only a few of our 'ryes' can be labelled as such in the US. These are: Alberta Premium (100% rye); Alberta Springs; Highwood; Centennial; and Century Reserve 15+. I may have missed some small local distillery brands here.

It works in reverse too. By Canadian Law a spirit must be aged for 3 years in oak. Some US whiskeys are only aged for 2 years and may not be labeled as Whisk(e)y in Canada.

Makes you kind of wish we could just all get along and adopt the same rules, as the same confusing situation exists for rum. Just about every major jurisdiction has adopted their own unique rules for what they can call rum and what they can't. But then these differences are sometimes what accounts for the unique flavours which occur in differing parts of the world. So standardization of law might lead to standardization of flavour and none of us wants that.

[sailor22]

Crown Royal (the base product) is an easy, and consistant, pour. I find it to be chock full of taste. But, the Reserve, which my cousin sent me is one of my favorite whiskys. IMO, it's a very complex product. I am hankering to get my hands on the XR for, at least, one dram!


Given a choice give the XR a pass and try the Cask 16, to my palate it is the better of the two.

Now if you can find some Bush Pilot Canadian Single malt ---- YUM - that's good whiskey from the great frozen north.

[Patapouf]

Thanks Arctic for clarifying. I think I get it now! lol

[Arctic Wolf]

Sorry for the lecture Patapouf, I got carried away.

[Patapouf]

Sorry for the lecture Patapouf, I got carried away.

I was being sincere. I appreciate the information. Plus I'll probably use all that when I get a chance to lecture my friends!

cheers.gif